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EMM has spent a decade building one of the most ambitious independent pop universes out there!
For this POP 101, Chantel Nicole is joined by recurring guest host Jasmine Stephen (producer at The Kelly Clarkson Show) for an in-person sit-down with self-made alt-pop visionary EMM, recorded in NYC the day of her Brooklyn stop on the Dumb World Tour. Over 200 million streams, 80 tour dates, four conceptual album eras, and zero major label calling the shots. EMM is the kind of artist the industry doesn't quite know how to categorize - and that's exactly the point.We take a guided tour through her universe: growing up in an evangelical household with classical-musician parents in Traverse City, Michigan, moving to NYC alone at 16, and building her 2016 debut Burning In The Dark from a North Hollywood apartment with nothing but a laptop, a mic, and a keyboard. Then the gemstone trilogy - EMERALD, RUBY, and SAPPHIRE - that built her independent empire chapter by chapter.
And finally BLACK DIAMOND, the 2025 villain pivot where EMM stopped trying to please the industry and leaned all the way into feminist rage, John the Baptist imagery, and a pop universe the algorithm was never built for.
References:
- “Freedom” MV https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=seBAAcEcp6U&pp=ygULZW1tIGZyZWVkb20%3D
- “END” MV https://youtu.be/WqH-G4D0LEk?si=mbO7OeCGNV6q2y_i
- “THANK YOU FOR RUINING MY LIFE” Visualizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibzBzS6_0OE&pp=ygUhZW1tIHRoYW5rIHlvdSBmb3IgcnVpbmluZyBteSBsaWZl
- “DUMB” Visualizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYRq_THhcuk&pp=ygUIZW1tIGR1bWLSBwkJBAsBhyohjO8%3D
- “EAT MY ACID” Visualizer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9ttIDq-coE&pp=ygUPZW1tIGVhdCBteSBhY2lk
- “THANK YOU FOR RUINING MY LIFE” Cockroach Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DoEMqTeSQTM&pp=ygUNZW1tIGNvY2tyb2FjaA%3D%3D
00:00:00 --> 00:00:06 Hi, this is CCTV, the nonstop pop show. This podcast is now under the control of Black Diamond.
00:00:09 --> 00:00:35 We are CCTV, the nonstop pop show, a global pop music podcast where we deep dive into the artists and music that we love. And Chris was unable to join us for this one, but we have a recurring guest host, producer of The Kelly Clarkson Show, Jasmine Steven, here to take part in this super exciting episode with Em. And this episode is part of our Pop 101 series where we give listeners a helpful guide to your favorite artists. And today's class is one we have been dying to teach today.
00:00:35 --> 00:00:47 Because M has spent a decade building one of the most ambitious independent pop universes out there. Class is now in session.
00:00:47 --> 00:01:06 Welcome. Thank you so much for hanging with us today, Em. We are so excited to have you in studio. We know your icons are tuning in, but for fans just getting initiated into your cult, can you introduce yourself into your new listeners? My name is Em, aka Black Diamond. I make music and art and universes, and you should listen to it.
00:01:07 --> 00:01:25 Oh, yes. Humble queen. But we're going to get into it. You are literally right in the middle of an 80-date world tour right now, which is insane. The Dumb World Tour is your first international headlining run. So how are we feeling? What's going on in your mind right now? I'm tired. I'm tired.
00:01:28 --> 00:01:49 To be honest. Yeah. Welcome to the couch. We got you. Yeah. But I'm great. I'm so grateful to be doing what I love. Absolutely. It's amazing. At any point you need to take a nap. We do have pillows present there and there. So just let us know. I think I will wreck them with my makeup. Okay. Wreck them queen. Go take it. Listen. That'll be a collector's piece one day. Your makeup on somebody's pillow.
00:01:49 --> 00:02:09 Absolutely. So before we dive into the most recent chapter of your story, let's take it all the way back because this is Pop 101 after all. You were born in Traverse City, Michigan, small town Yvette Janko household, two classical parents for musicians. Your dad was an opera singer. Your mom was a classical harpist. What was music like growing up in your household and who were some of your biggest musical influences?
00:02:10 --> 00:02:29 In the household, it was a lot of classical music. My dad loved the Beatles and the Temptations. But honestly, it was mostly like listening to them rehearse, listening to them practice a lot of like jazz rehearsals, church rehearsals, a lot of church music, like just them working mostly was what we were hearing around the house. And then I was so weird to...
00:02:29 --> 00:02:50 because I was listening to like Whitney Houston and Mariah Carey and Beyonce and studying really the greats and of pop music and my family was looking at me like, well, what is this? Like, yeah. Did you ever like, because your mom, like because opera and classical is in your house, were you ever like turning those pop classics like into like improvised opera songs?
00:02:51 --> 00:03:16 I wasn't. My big problem was I would go to my piano lessons and I loved to write music, so I'd be learning like Tchaikovsky or whatever, and I'd do my own version. And then I got kicked out of several piano studios because a lot of the more studious, hardcore classical teachers, they didn't like that. And then finally I had a teacher named Peggy Johnson that was actually very supportive of my creativity. So that was my biggest issue.
00:03:16 --> 00:03:31 Shout out Peggy. They're hating on the remix. Y'all are haters. All y'all are haters. Yeah, they were haters. At 16, you packed up and moved to New York City alone to pursue music. What made you realize you had to take that leap? 16 is such a young and tender age. You'd be like, you know what? I'm done with the Midwest.
00:03:31 --> 00:03:48 That was just when the opportunities started to come. Before that, I was saving up my babysitting money to go record my songs that I was writing on the guitar and the piano at recording studios and making little demos with the idea that I was going to send them to record labels and get signed, which is cute from like eight years old.
00:03:48 --> 00:04:17 So I was working for a long time, and then suddenly a door kind of opened serendipitously. So a lot of like synchronicities happened, and then I had the opportunity to start working in New York. So that was really cool. Well, that's dope. So, I mean, eventually you made your way out to LA, and in 2016 you released your debut mixtape, Burning in the Dark. And like, here's the wild part that a lot of people don't even realize, like now it's normal, but in 2016 you wrote, recorded, produced, mixed, and mastered the entire thing yourself.
00:04:17 --> 00:04:39 from a tiny apartment in NoHo. So it's like, that's insane to us. And every single decision on that record was you, right? So Burning in the Dark is this project about battling and overcoming severe mental health challenges, depression, suicidal ideations, and that's so intense and very bold for a debut album. So could you tell us more about that project where you were and any big memories making it?
00:04:39 --> 00:05:06 Sure. So I had nothing at the time. I was just finishing a deal. Like I kind of got dropped from my management company, which was like a really big manager who decided to retire. And they had been paying all my bills for like two years, which was amazing. And I but I had, you know, it was like the very bare minimum just to survive. So I was like sleeping on a mattress on the floor. I had no furniture. I had like nothing except my laptop and a microphone and a little keyboard.
00:05:06 --> 00:05:28 So I literally just used what I had to make that project. And then they had the big management company. They had been putting me in with like big producers and writers and stuff. But every session I was just like, oh, like I was getting hit on a lot. I wasn't being taken seriously. They weren't letting me do my ideas. So I would go to those during the day. And then at night I went home and I was like, I'm just going to work on this stuff that I like.
00:05:28 --> 00:05:54 with no intention for it really um so that's kind of where it came from and then i was so heartbroken when i got dropped i was like well i don't know what to do now i guess i'll just put this out that's kind of how it happened oh my gosh a leap of faith girl that's all it takes yeah so people get held back i mean i've worked in some studios and it's like why'd you bring me here well he thought you were cute i thought this was going to be like a moment we're writing we're gonna do something so like totally understand and shout out to you for like taking that leap for sure
00:05:54 --> 00:06:15 Yeah. And shout out for you for like keeping going. That can be pretty heartbreaking for a younger woman to like go through. And it would make a lot of other people would decide, you know what, this isn't for me. So like, what was like the motivation for you to be like, no, music is where I need to be for the rest of my life, no matter what happens to me?
00:06:15 --> 00:06:36 I just don't have a choice. Ooh, girl. Say it again. I don't have a choice. Like, if I quit, God will just redirect me and put me right back. Because it's just like, there's nothing, there's just, that's why I'm here. It's your destiny. Yeah. Yes, mama. And so now this became the area when you first became one of the first artists to really build a fan base on Flippagram.
00:06:36 --> 00:06:55 You were remixing your own music to over like 100 fans on a platform most people kind of forgot that existed. And now you ended up in USA Today and Business Wire because of it. So what drew you to Flipagram over any other social media at the time? And do you remember any of those posts? Yeah. Oh, my gosh. That was so long ago.
00:06:56 --> 00:07:14 I don't even know where to start. So the management company that I stopped working with, that was like the last introduction that they made. And then they retired. But I loved the people at Flipagram and they loved me. So we just ended up building like a really beautiful relationship. And then I was like their number one artist on the app for a few years, which was really cool because they had like a featured artist section.
00:07:14 --> 00:07:41 It's funny because TikTok came and that's what wiped out Flippagram. But they were direct competitors for a minute. It was like, which one is it going to be? But the people there were just so supportive and so great. So that was like, I have a lot of good memories from Flippagram. That's true. I mean, honestly, just to have that kind of platform. Again, still early on, a lot of pioneering princess moments here for that. That's really exciting for sure. Yeah. And to have like 100 people to constantly be like, oh!
00:07:41 --> 00:07:52 Oh my God, I love you, I need you. Please, please hurry up and make more music. What was that like to know that like you had found 100 people that listened to your music? I think back then,
00:07:53 --> 00:08:23 It just doesn't feel real until you tour. Nothing feels real until you meet people in real life. URL, IRL switch. Yes. It's all just like words on a screen. And it's nice, but it's like until you actually hug people, it's like it's hard to explain. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I remember seeing a lot of your like older footage where you were like performing. You were really grinding. It wasn't just like I'm on the Internet and I'm being cute and just blonde and perfect. You were like really out there. You were like, oh, I think you were singing at Dodger Stadium.
00:08:23 --> 00:08:34 you know, ground up kind of things. Like I said, performing in clubs in New York, you're out there performing in like halls and clubs and at baseball games and things like that. So your whole career has been very much like indie,
00:08:35 --> 00:08:54 I've never been the artist that just like other than the one huge manager that I had for a short time that helped with my bills. Like there's never been a part of my career where it was just like I got plugged in. You know, it's a lot of artists like they'll grind for a year and then they meet the person that plugs them in. But I haven't had that. So I've just had to like figure it out.
00:08:54 --> 00:09:23 Yeah, you had to become your own plug. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Okay, come on. The mitochondria, powerhouse of the cell. Powerhouse of the cell. Come on. Let's get here. Yes. Okay, so in 2018, things are really starting to get going for you. You've worked on about 50 songs, and those tracks split upon three mixtapes, but these weren't random projects. These were three chapters of your superhero universe you birthed from scratch. There's a compilation music video trilogy. Each one represents a different level of consciousness. Is that right? Yeah.
00:09:23 --> 00:09:48 Yeah. You got it. Yeah. Tell us a little bit about those different levels of consciousness and like why you decided that you needed to build this superhero universe. Why? I have no idea. I just got inspired. Yes. I love comic books. Like I love building universes. I love films. Like I just love anything. Like I love Dune. I love trilogies. I love Lord of the Rings. Like I love universes. So it was like I think it'd be fun to create that as a long term thing. Yeah.
00:09:48 --> 00:10:09 So the projects are called Emerald, Ruby and Sapphire. And each one has an element to like Emerald would be Earth element, Sapphire's water, Ruby's fire, obviously. And now we're doing Diamond, which is upcoming, which is air. But I just wanted to take a side route for a minute and do Black Diamond because I needed a villain. And I thought it'd be fucking fun.
00:10:09 --> 00:10:25 Yeah, it's totally fine. We were talking about it and we were like, I was like, it's giving Sailor Moon. I was like, maybe Steven Universe. But that's great. You're creating a conversation, even if those aren't that you can say Mortal Kombat, even something people are like, I can relate to that. I see something. Yeah.
00:10:25 --> 00:10:53 I love that. I want a piece of that. So, yeah, let's hop right into this gemstone era and talk about those three mixtapes. Like you said, you started with Emerald and our heroine has green hair. She's wielding this katana named Lady. And this album was released in 2019 and represents the loss of innocence, sexual corruption and reclaiming power. And you did kick this era off with freedom and a poignant prologue visuals, like tracks like Lady and Wicked, my favorite, like Pussy Power and rock inspired tracks make Emerald.
00:10:53 --> 00:11:01 Emeril feels so raw. So what about this project and those set of songs made you feel like you needed to put this out first in your trio?
00:11:02 --> 00:11:28 I think I knew that Freedom was a really strong song, and I think I knew that that would probably be an important song. So I tried to base it around that song for the first one. And I have no idea why I grouped them the way that I did. Honestly, I don't even remember. I feel like- It's a creative blur. Yeah, it is. Like, I feel like I just put together what felt like it would go well together, because I had all the songs from the beginning for all three projects. So I just tried to group them based on what felt right.
00:11:34 --> 00:11:54 Yeah. And your collaborators, you've mentioned them in your videos. They're unlisted. I had to dig a little. But you have your collaborators. Is it Zoe and Tyler? Taylor. Taylor, excuse me. Yeah. So how did that relationship come about with the producer that kind of was just like, ugh, how did you find those two to collaborate with and create with?
00:11:55 --> 00:12:22 Um, Zoe, I knew from Michigan. There's a school called Interlochen Center for the Arts. Yes, there is. So my dad is like a key part of Interlochen. Like he worked there for many years. He just retired. Congratulations. Shout out daddy. But I wanted to go there when I was young and there was nothing for me because they didn't have a pop program. So my dad put together this pop program for them, which is now very successful. And Zoe went to that program.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:47 So I met her through my hometown and she had moved to LA and was just trying to figure it out. And I was like, well, why don't you come to some sessions, come write. And we wrote well together. So I just kept inviting her. And then the producer I met through another producer friend and he was great too. And he wasn't doing anything and I wasn't doing anything and she wasn't doing anything. So I was like, let's just make it happen. So I was like working my day jobs during the day and then at night going to studio and working.
00:12:47 --> 00:13:13 Oh, that's so dope. Yeah, it says a lot because a lot of people don't know how to reach back for someone who's like, I guess, smaller town kind of vibes. You still offer an opportunity. And I think that's really cool because a lot of people don't do that. I mean, I've asked somebody before like, hey, where'd you go record? Out of studio. Obviously. What are we doing? I'm not a gatekeeping person at all, like because I've needed so much help and so many people have helped me. Like I try to help other people as much as I possibly can.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:29 Yeah, definitely. So that for sure. For sure. And while we're talking about your dad and interlocking, I love that that there wasn't something there for you. And your dad was like, let me create that so other kids wouldn't have to feel like my daughter did. How does it feel to have your parents like full blessing and backing as you've chased this career, which this very difficult career?
00:13:30 --> 00:13:47 I wouldn't say I have their full blessing and backing at all, but I would say my, cause they're very, uh, they have a very different set of values than I do. But I would say I'm really grateful that he did that for me. I thought that was really cool. And I'm so happy that it's helped so many other people.
00:13:47 --> 00:14:13 Yeah, for sure. For sure. I read the comments that people are loving it for sure. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I'm gonna go now into Ruby because that was the second of your trilogy that came out. It's a double like it covers the cover features you with double size and red hair. The project was released in 2020 in the middle of COVID. New freedom learning that demons take more than one battle. So why did you go with Ruby second? And what were some other precious stone concepts that didn't make it?
00:14:14 --> 00:14:31 I didn't have any other precious stone concepts. It was like always those ones in the beginning because I dreamed it. So it was like three in the morning or two in the morning. I woke up and I was like, I had the whole thing in my brain. I was like, okay, this feels like a nice little gift. Like I wrote it all down. And then I showed my friends. I was like, what do you think? And they're like, meh.
00:14:31 --> 00:14:58 I don't care. I like it. I'm going to do it anyway. Yeah. Which is my biggest, maybe my biggest gift and my biggest flaw. Mm-hmm. But yeah, I forgot the question. What was the question? No, you answered it perfectly, but like I, from what it sounds like, like earlier when you mentioned like, you know, if I wasn't doing music, God would have redirected my path. I'm getting stuff from dreams. It seems like you're very like spiritually like in tune when it comes to your music. Is that something that like you rely on heavily?
00:14:58 --> 00:15:16 Yeah, that's like everything for me. I'm very, very spiritual. You don't have to say something. It's a little corny to say that. No, no, it's not. I'm over here with like woo-woo and God and all that other talk. So that's why I just find it really interesting. Yes, like I could never have come this far without really strong faith. So it definitely carries me through everything.
00:15:16 --> 00:15:43 Yeah, that's totally interesting, because I think a lot of people think that because you are so confident that you are like, I am greater than like a grandiose kind of concept of self. But you're like, it came from somewhere, girl. I'm just channeling. So I think that makes it feel even more like powerful because you are humble, but like you don't have to be because the instruments that you can play, the octaves that you contain multitudes. Right. So, again, a huge respect toward you. And I love Satisfied. I just want to shout that out. It's so jazzy.
00:15:43 --> 00:16:02 Nobody knows Satisfied. And I love that song. It's amazing. How do you know that song? Because we list, girl, welcome to CCTV. Thank you. We'll do our research up in this house, girl. Yeah, I was listening. I'm like, okay. And I'm like, am I hearing some jobs here? I was like, this girl is tapped in. Like, literally, like, we were all just like, oh, she's good.
00:16:02 --> 00:16:20 thank you yeah she's actually that's my favorite song and it's literally like my least stream so i'm so happy you know it thank you yes black diamond take me under your wing honey your foot it won't be it won't be least streamed anymore after today okay everyone's gonna be listening to it
00:16:21 --> 00:16:42 Right, right. But yes, moving right along to Sapphire. You know, I like the cover, Tomfell Blades. Again, it was giving like Mortal Kombat. I was really trying to figure out the energy. But again, it's just badass women, right? It was released in 2021. And this is the backstory that revealed the fight to become Diamond. If you guys watch the visual, which you should watch it, you will see the whole story.
00:16:48 --> 00:16:52 So why was Sapphire the perfect project to lead into Diamond?
00:16:52 --> 00:17:20 I think because I haven't planned Diamond yet, it was more of like, this is a good way to finish our current story and set us up for like the next evolution. So that was more of where I was, my head was at. That makes sense. I mean, I was watching, we were all watching the visuals. Girl, again, I was trying to like watch the little concert stuff too and get in there. But we were watching the visuals and I was like, oh my God, hang on, I need to rewatch this. We have an editor. She was also like, wait, hang on, what's going on? Like you made this...
00:17:20 --> 00:17:35 like during what, COVID era? So you were just, I saw some of the behind the scenes, the masks, like the graphics. It was very, very involved. So cool. Love the story. And then the bald version of you, the dark M. Yes, yes.
00:17:35 --> 00:18:03 wild absolutely wild and then when it came to dine i'm like where is she where is she why do we why we skip it so it's giving that whole the saga continues like thank you you are a mistress thank you oh that's suspense thank you you're welcome girl we worked so hard on that project and it was during covid so it was really special because i got to hire like so many people during the pandemic that were creatives that weren't working and i think it meant so much to them so that was like a big win for me
00:18:03 --> 00:18:33 That's awesome because a lot of people, again, they get scared because of what was happening, obviously. But then they think about the financial undertaking of something like that. So that's really awesome. But like I said, the era is completely a conceptual dream. I mean, 100% independently. And I mean, it's kind of obvious. You can say like, oh, this was hard. This happened. Third was hard. But from your experience and looking back, what was something that was really difficult putting together? Obviously, you're super proud. But is there anything that you're like, that was freaking insane.
00:18:33 --> 00:19:03 everything is very hard oh everything's hard because especially when nobody's funding it like I'm figuring out everything I'm figuring out the shoe I'm figuring out who is the person we're hiring who is a person we're firing how are we paying for it how's that gonna work all of it so it's yeah it's all very hard but it's so I like I said I don't have an option it's just like in me and if I don't do it I will literally go insane like it it's kind of like I
00:19:03 --> 00:19:19 like an alien you know an alien with like the thing that's like what it is it's like okay i gotta get this out of me or i'm gonna lose my shit yeah like the fifth element the stone oh my god i love her yes exactly like all of it's inside of me so that's awesome yeah i understand that for sure
00:19:20 --> 00:19:40 Okay, going into the gym show trilogy, the plan was always at the final chapter, the boss level. And so then in March 2025, you dropped Black Diamond and Black Diamond is the villain. This is the current project. The 10 tracks designed as one continuous seamless experience. Every song flows into the next. Gothic rock, funk, industrial, electronic pop, all of it.
00:19:40 --> 00:20:05 The album covered is your head severed on a plate, tongue out, braids twisting it like thorns. This is your feminist manifesto. So, Black Diamond, why did the villain become the finale instead of the hero? I wouldn't say it's the finale. Okay. Come on now. The saga continues. The saga continues. I want to say when I was listening to this album, I was like...
00:20:05 --> 00:20:27 Oh, yes, mama. The song on there, I think the title is like, Thank You For Ruining My Life. Or I was just like, literally, I was like, this is the song that I need to be listening every day anytime my haters do anything that come against me. Because this is the song that like, I was like, oh, okay, let me shake it. Let me shake my ass to this. It was so good.
00:20:32 --> 00:20:58 Can you tell me, like, when you were writing this music, like, do you don these characters? Did you become Black Diamond when you were making this music? Or did Black Diamond come later? I knew going in what I was doing. I made a plan. I sat with a lot of producers and I said, this is what I'm doing. This is what I wanted to sound like. These are the references. This is what I'm about to do. And then there was one that, like, really got it. And we locked in and did nine of the ten songs together. Yeah.
00:20:58 --> 00:21:17 Um, so yeah, I knew going in exactly what I was up to. And I knew the energy behind it, which was going to be rage. Yeah. Oh, yeah. So I think I saw you on my, like, explore page, just the all white and then like a black imagery. And I was like,
00:21:18 --> 00:21:38 is that like a Hellraiser thing? I'm not, I think it was for dumb. And I was like, okay, cool, cool. Didn't think anything of it. Yes. I loved it, but I didn't think anything of it. Like I grew up listening to like a lot of metal music, like, you know, so I was just like, go off girl, you know? So it wasn't like a thing. I didn't think about it. And then like your team reached out and I was like, I feel like I know her listen to that first track, the opener. And I was like,
00:21:38 --> 00:22:03 She's so sick. Oh, my God. Yes. You are singing. And I think a lot of people don't realize, especially with the electric kind of sound, like sonically, you're embracing gothic rock and crunchy, abrasive sonics and genres. But you're actually really just hitting notes, just actually singing. And you have bars. So shout out to you. Thank you. But what was the inspiration behind the sounds and the visuals especially? Yeah.
00:22:03 --> 00:22:30 Because it's not just rays, it's also something else there. It's like, why the white? Why the black? Why these? I think visually, just for the visualizers, I just wanted to keep it very simple and keep it about the fashion and the makeup. Because that was a huge part of this. Like, there's a big drag influence for sure. And I was like, this needs to look... I don't want to distract with backgrounds that don't make sense. Like, I just want it to be about the look. And then sonically, I feel like, yeah, it's just...
00:22:31 --> 00:22:52 anger it's rage it's feminist rage which i have so much of it has happened to so that was easy yeah a moment of silence for our piece we will we will get it back um but yeah so speaking of like the tracks and the videos let's highlight some of these tracks we have dumb mastermind peaches and cream delilah eat my my acid
00:23:02 --> 00:23:23 I mean, girl, first of all, real quick, the cockroach visual. Oh, yeah. That was like a side one we did just for funsies. I mean, you do reference cockroaches in the song. And then you have had, I think it was Ruby with End. You were in the tub with the roaches. So, like, I get it. But it was so funny. I'm like, this girl is so unserious. But, like.
00:23:23 --> 00:23:40 serious still very unserious yeah but i'm like it's hilarious but i want to take you serious i think yeah i think it's funny because even though it's like a really heavy dark energy it's also so funny it's just like i just got to the point was like i don't give a fuck anymore like i've tried for so hard
00:23:40 --> 00:24:10 I tried so hard for so long to like appease the industry and like try to get this person to say yes to me and try to get that person to like me so that I could get the plug to get to where I wanted to go. And then eventually I was like, they're not going to fucking like me. Like, I'm autistic. I'm weird. I can't please straight men. And a lot of these are like straight white men and they just don't understand what I'm doing. And I was like, so at this point, like, fuck it. I'm just going to have fun. And it's been so much better since I made that decision. Like, everything has an energy of joy behind it.
00:24:10 --> 00:24:27 every time I go outside, like, people just love Black Diamond, and online they absolutely hate her. And, like, we had a couple of people on the subway, like, that lost their shit, and then some people are, like, glaring. And it's just fun to, like, just get... It's like a... Is it called a Rorschach test?
00:24:27 --> 00:24:52 Oh, and the black and white, like a painting, the one where you look at it and it looks like a butterfly is like this ink flat. Yeah, it's like what do you see? And it's all of a sudden who you are, what you see. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you've definitely, but she's mentioned like on the subway, like she has her, all her content is like that. And I'm like, I love that because not only are you able to integrate your artistry, but you also integrate your values as well. Like you're not doing anything except existing. Yeah.
00:24:52 --> 00:25:19 And that's statement. And you put your music on top of it as well. It's like, you cannot clock me. Even if you did, honey, I am the clock. It's my time. So I love that. And you mentioned like the whole, everything's being fun. Do you have any specific like really fun moments or fun stories about writing or the recording process or even filming? I think the most fun we have is just like when we're out and about seeing people's reactions. Because so many people do hilarious stuff. Or like a lot of people try to sneak out.
00:25:19 --> 00:25:46 On record, they'd be like... Or like, see selfies. And we're like, we can see you. Like, that was just happened. It's like, dude, we can see what you're doing. Just ask for a photo. But yeah, it's really fun. Yeah, it's all fun. Especially like when we walk the xenomorphs. Oh my God, yes. Yeah, that's like very controversial. Everyone thinks it's like a sex thing, but it's not. I just thought it would be funny. So a lot of the stuff we're doing is just based on like, what's going to make me laugh? Yeah, yeah.
00:25:46 --> 00:26:13 Yeah, it's just fun. I guess I'm sick too, because I'm laughing. I think it's so funny. I think that's why I saw the xenomorph. It's supposed to make you laugh. She's a supervillain. Let her be fun. I mean, if anyone has any kind of imagination, like Power Rangers villains, you are. I would love to have you destroy my angel grove for me. I would love it. I would love for Megazord to battle you and lose. Like, seriously. Rita Skeeta, is that her name? Oh, Rita Vavulce.
00:26:13 --> 00:26:29 Rita Raposa ain't got nothing on you, girl. I know. Like, talk about it. And now I'm definitely going to talk about that album cover, severed head on the plate, the tongue, the braids. What made you go, this is the perfect way to represent the body of work I'm putting out?
00:26:30 --> 00:26:55 On the back of the vinyls, we had the original cover, which was me being birthed out of my own vagina. Yes! I don't know if you've seen that photo, but it's really sickening. Like, it's so cool, the back of the vinyl. So that was our original plan. And then I thought it's a little too complex for the front. I'd like something more simple on the front. We went to record stores, Kevin and I, he works with me, and we looked into...
00:26:55 --> 00:27:13 at Barnes and Noble and we've looked at Urban Outfitters and like, okay, what pops on the shelf? Like we want something that's going to pop if you just saw it and you had no idea who I was. So that's why I was like, I think we need to go simple and clean, like crisp white, which is like a simple photo. Yeah. Yeah. And then the head on the plate, obviously it's like John the Baptist inspired.
00:27:14 --> 00:27:36 I love that. Yeah, of course. And I love that you're like birthing yourself on the back because like that kind of goes right back to your whole thing of being like I was looking for the plug and I couldn't and I couldn't find it. So I had to make myself my own plug. I had to birth my own vision into the universe of which I am my own vision, you know, like the stones are in me. Like, yeah, that is just so good. And like, I just love that you're not afraid to just.
00:27:36 --> 00:28:06 live your own joy, you know, which, because I think a lot of artists want to, especially in today's world, they're like, I'm trying to get TikTok popular. I'm trying to do this. And you're just kind of like rejecting that in a way. And I think that that's really fresh and beautiful about you. Thank you. Yeah. Girl, you're welcome. I'm glad you get it. Yeah. Welcome. A lot of people don't get it. So I'm happy that you do. Of course. Dumb. But yes, which was bring us right to our current time, which is the Dumb World Tour. And it is...
00:28:06 --> 00:28:35 You were so dumb for that. Dumb. Yeah. So like I said, we're here, 80 dates. Okay. First international headlining run. Congratulations. You deserved it. Not only that, you've earned it. Thank you. Like, hello, my queen. We cannot wait to attend tonight. Thank you. We're so excited. So tell us about this creative direction behind the show, because you've had Genesis, right? So that's a little bit different. But just speaking on this project for Dumb, what's going on in there?
00:28:36 --> 00:29:00 um i think this show is it started with genesis that that's a film that i made a concert film and documentary in 2022 is when we made it and then it dropped in 2024 is that was a huge undertaking that project so i was able to take like the best pieces of that and keep them for this show and then add in all of the black diamond music which is so fucking fun yeah
00:29:00 --> 00:29:16 Yeah. Yeah. You've been playing. I've been watching some of your performances. I'm not sure if you chipped your tooth, but I was like, my baby! My queen! I had like a small conniption about it. I was like, oh my God, my teeth! But I knew it was going to happen because I have really soft teeth. It's like...
00:29:16 --> 00:29:33 He took like a split in two of my teeth. I'm like, please. Yeah. Oh my God. But they fixed it. I was like, oh, thank God. They have a gorgeous smile, but it's just interesting. I'm a little vain about my teeth, I guess. You have really pretty teeth. I never had braces. I like that my bottom teeth are really crooked. Like I like my teeth.
00:29:33 --> 00:29:51 I know what you mean. I'm like that too. Like I don't play like floss, water floss. No, my mouth is really important. We can just skip about that whole floss life. Me and my dad just have a fight about it every time. Anyway. I never floss. I hate floss. That's why you and me. It's just like so uncomfortable. I hate you doing it. You know what? I was remembering your mouth.
00:29:51 --> 00:30:21 all his no no okay no thank you i showed up i know it's disgusting that i kind of don't but i am just really bad about it i just forget all the time listen fine as someone who has aahd it's like you want me to like live in this world where it feels like everything is falling apart and fucking floss pick one yeah i can't even remember to eat like you think i'm gonna remember to floss you know right but at least stay hydrated right we drink water yeah okay oh
00:30:21 --> 00:30:47 oh if you're at home watching take a water break right and also we this is being brought to you by vizcast here in midtown new york if you have any podcast needs or you want to film here hello viz cast studio is for you brought to you by glass water so now since you brought up jenison so let's talk about your documentary and live album what do you want most people to take away from from the experience of you filming it and showing all that stuff
00:30:47 --> 00:31:10 I think I want people to be aware of like what women go through on a mass scale and especially like for me in my microcosm that I've experienced, which is entertainment. And I want women behind the scenes to be highlighted because I think we'll hear from like big artists or famous people like, oh, yeah, I had misogyny. It's like, OK, but they're not the ones that are like backstage carrying things in the crew or like.
00:31:10 --> 00:31:36 The musicians or the dancers are the people who really get the worst of it and have no power to speak up at all because no one cares about them and they're easily replaceable. So I think that was more the system that I wanted to highlight was that big problem. And that's awesome. Yeah. The voice to the wasteless. Again, I don't know if I think Blackdown is a villain, but I don't want to get into that real quick. I'll leave it all alone. I don't think she's a villain. But isn't that the whole thing is like...
00:31:36 --> 00:31:59 you're it's like just in the lens of you look at things right like black diamond isn't necessarily like sure she's the villain because the good person is deciding that they don't want whatever she's going to do to happen but like what kind of forever he was just like i just want to set black people free like like like what is the problem with that right barrel i just want you just want to set women free and thank you for that black diamond for wanting to set women free i'm
00:31:59 --> 00:32:16 I'm pro black diamond. I endorse this message. Me too. I am too. Is there a diamond sign? And that's why we did like a lot of demonic energy or energy imagery because I wanted to make sure that I made that point of like people really demonize. Yeah.
00:32:16 --> 00:32:40 women who speak up and i think it's important like i knew she was going to be triggering i designed her to be triggering but i wanted to like go all the way with it and just be like i know i get called a satanist every day before black diamond ever existed just for saying like women deserve to be treated well so i just leaned in i was like all right i know you're gonna say this anyway like let's just make the point exactly and also make some money off it because of
00:32:40 --> 00:32:56 Why not? And get a tour off of it. Period. Yes. But yeah, speaking of this Black Diamond era, again, she's not a villain. You've teased a game, an animated series, and a comic for the Black Diamond universe. But what can you tell us about what's coming next? Can you give us a little teaser?
00:32:57 --> 00:33:17 I have a lot of ideas and a lot of things that we've written and scripted and come up with episodes and all kinds of things that we're still kind of figuring out when and where it's going to live and all of that and how it's going to be made. But for now, the only thing I can probably tell you is that there's going to be more Black Diamond music.
00:33:17 --> 00:33:34 Ooh. Yes. Yes. I mean, you have been releasing some music. You've released Get Fucked, which, again, amazing, which is tying in your values, what's going on, and also this character is just, again, bone apple titty. Bone apple titty, for sure. For sure.
00:33:38 --> 00:34:06 I'm going to steal that phrase. Oh, please do. Yeah, let me know. Let me know. Just tag me. So I'm like, oh my God. I found the black diamond. She signs her light on me. Need to be a song title. Bon Appetit. I be honored. Take it. Steal it. Oh, it's yours. Sorry. I love it. Yeah, welcome. Welcome. I'm not horny. I'm just curious. That's another thing. Another time. Yeah.
00:34:07 --> 00:34:19 But yes, I mean, like I said before, you are very unapologetic. Your artistry is like obvious. Your talent is very obvious as well. And like you said, Black Diamond is to come, but you have been hinting at Diamond Diamond.
00:34:19 --> 00:34:46 Could you give us a little something, something? Or are you kind of just like, no, not yet, not yet. It's not time. Oh, dang. Okay. I love that. I absolutely love that you were like, no, this is on my timeline, maybe. And you're not going to fit into it. Thank you. Listen, I will still ask. Closed mouth, closed legs. Don't get fed people. Surely you do not. All right. So I don't get eaten either. Anyone. Hello. So, yeah. Last question before we let you go and conquer New York City Black Diamond. I love you guys. I love you guys.
00:34:47 --> 00:35:14 Tell us where we get it. Last question before we let you go. Conquer the city. If a brand new pop fan is meeting Em, listening Em for the very first time today, and CCTV is a gateway drug, where do they start after this interview? It depends on your vibe. But I feel like you should start with Black Diamond. Don't listen to my top Spotify because that's like mostly collabs. It's not even my sound. So go listen to Black Diamond. That's what I would say.
00:35:14 --> 00:35:39 Yes. Hello. You heard it here from Black Diamond herself. Listen to Black Diamond. Em, thank you so much for joining us today on CTTV. We are so grateful you took time out of your incredibly hectic schedule and tour to be here. Do you have a final message for your icons? For them? Yeah. Don't let anybody shrink you. See?
00:35:39 --> 00:36:04 Yeah. Show up as your fullest self, even if it makes people uncomfortable. Yes. And you can still be kind and be humble and be sweet and do that, but don't, like, be less to make other people feel like more. Absolutely. That's what I'm feeling today. Yes. I feel that from you. I'm definitely inspired. I was talking and I was like, oh, my gosh, she's here. Yeah, girl, we're fans. We're pals. Thank you. Thank you so much for taking the time to learn all about this. I really appreciate it.
00:36:04 --> 00:36:25 You made the time to make it. We are here for you, girl. Yeah. So, you know, listen, everyone. Follow Em on Instagram and TikTok at Em in real life. And, of course, stream Black Diamond wherever you get your music. Tour dates, Genesis, the documentary, all of it is linked in her bio. It'll be linked in our video. Don't play games, okay? All right. So thank you so much for joining us on CCTV.
00:36:26 --> 00:36:52 Em, thank you so much. Yay! Thank you. And a huge... Oh, yeah, sorry. And a huge shout-out to our CCTV crew on Patreon. That's Lily, Emily, Juliette, George, Julianne, Jonathan, Janelle, Darius, Wren, Hillary, Luke, Venus, Ivana, and Ryan! Yes! And you can follow us everywhere at CCTV Pops. We're at 10K, baby! And if you're watching on YouTube, don't forget to like, subscribe, and turn on your notifications. And if you are listening from a podcast app, a follow, or writing...
00:36:52 --> 00:37:04 Rating, sorry. Five stars really helps, okay? Until next time, that's Jasmine. That's Shanta. And that's Em. And we are signing off from CCTV, the nonstop pop show.