Time to dive into the world of Destiny's Child! In our POP 101 podcast series, we embark on a journey through the group's incredible rise to fame. Join us in Part 1 as we delve into the origins of Destiny's Child, explore the influential role of Matthew Knowles as their manager, and uncover the magic behind their debut album. We also discuss the game-changing second album, "The Writing's on the Wall," which solidified their status as global superstars. We also discuss the challenging moments in Destiny's Child's history, such as the departure of original members LeToya and LaTavia, and the introduction of Michelle and Farrah as new additions to the group.
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References:
Girls Tyme Clips from 1992 https://youtu.be/7ev7qarnI2w Girls Tyme on Star Search https://youtu.be/jfSQWch877c Girls Tyme Rehearsal https://youtu.be/Lf9_3-XSxSE Destiny’s Child - “No No No Part 1” MV https://youtu.be/XQtoCz9dIJQ Destiny’s Child - “No No No Part 2” feat. Wyclef Jean MV https://youtu.be/-0wbtk6_vpE Destiny’s Child - “With Me Part 1” MV https://youtu.be/xTU13T4ht-0 Destiny’s Child - “No No No Part 2” Live https://youtu.be/FR_gqWrkA-A Destiny's Child - "Get On The Bus" MV https://youtu.be/1TOpuUWbrvg Destiny’s Child - “Bills, Bills, Bills” MV https://youtu.be/NiF6-0UTqtc Destiny’s Child - “Bug A Boo” MV https://youtu.be/9i-y0G8nNA8 2000 interview about member switch https://youtu.be/vOFORSHC1VQ Destiny’s Child - “Say My Name” MV https://youtu.be/sQgd6MccwZc Destiny’s Child - “Jumpin’, Jumpin’’” MV https://youtu.be/Vjw92oUduEM
00:00:00 --> 00:00:15 Viewer discretion is advised. Your fave will be criticized. That's Chris. That's Shan. Welcome to CCTV, the nonstop pop show. And today we are heading back to pop 101 class and learning about the legendary girl group, Destiny's Child.
00:00:19 --> 00:00:47 Get the ultimate pop fix with Chris and I right here on CCTV. We are experienced performers and industry insiders, bringing you in-depth reviews, discussion, and interviews with your favorite artists, producers, and creators from across the music business. So you can come join us here on The Conversation or join us on Patreon at patreon.com slash cctvpops and become a part of our amazing crew, including Lisette, Lily, Emily, Juliet, and Kevin. So subscribe now and let's explore the world of pop music together.
00:00:47 --> 00:00:56 Yes, and today we're talking about legends in pop music. Destiny's Child, and we're going to talk about their whole career. But before we get into it, are you a fan?
00:00:57 --> 00:01:17 Yes. I turned into a family late though because of how my influences in life, you know? When I was a kid, I had no clue who they were whatsoever. Like my older sister, she grew up, I grew up with her and she played other girl groups like, you know, Escape or maybe like En Vogue or Jeanne. Like it was never like,
00:01:17 --> 00:01:33 Destiny's Child, I can remember. So when I got older, I had an idea of their music because of like 106 and Park or something, but it was only when I got older and whatnot, I was like cognizant of Beyonce. And I think Destiny's Fulfilled is when I realized, oh wait, she was in a group, which is crazy.
00:01:33 --> 00:01:55 I was very much kind of being very influenced by pop culture at the time that they first came out. So the whole Writings on the Wall era, I was a huge fan from there. And honestly, I'm still a huge fan. I have a little fund on the side in case they ever reunite for a tour. Because unfortunately, I've never seen the three of them live before. I've seen Beyonce a few times, and I've actually met Michelle.
00:01:55 --> 00:02:19 through work but yeah i really want to see them live it's a bucket list thing but yeah they're very instrumental um in my love of pop music i think especially in my love and ear for good harmonies and also my ability to understand vocal dynamics in a group um so yeah definitely one of my favorite girl groups ever all right so let's get into it class is in session
00:02:21 --> 00:02:42 Before Destiny's Child became a household name, the group began in the early 1990s in Houston, Texas. A small local music management company, D&D Management, was in the process of forming a young girl group. And while looking for talent, Beyonce Knowles was recommended by her dance instructor. After auditions, the initial lineup of the group became Girls Time, and the girls were all 8 to 11 years old.
00:02:42 --> 00:03:06 quickly went into intense vocal and dance training. And through the years, the group experienced many member changes, and eventually, with the help of producer Arnie Fragger, the then six-member girl group had the opportunity to appear on Star Search, a huge talent show broadcasted on national television. The lineup included Beyonce Knowles, Kelly Rowland, Atavio Robertson, and three other young girls.
00:03:06 --> 00:03:33 But unfortunately, Girls' Time lost the competition. But they used that as motivation to fuel them for their next steps. So Matthew Knowles, who was Beyonce's father, decided to step in and help manage the group. He was determined to make his daughter's dreams come true. And within a few years, he actually quit his day job and used all his resources to help train the group. He built a stage in his backyard and put them through his own pop star boot camp.
00:03:33 --> 00:03:51 And Matthew also made some adjustments to the lineup. So he did keep Beyonce, Kelly, and Latavia, and he added Latoya Luckett. He also established their roles. So Beyonce was the lead singer. Kelly was the second lead singer. Latoya was a soprano, and Latavia was the alto, rapper, and spokeswoman.
00:03:51 --> 00:04:16 And throughout the early 90s, the group performed at local talent shows, events, and pretty much anywhere that they would have them, including Tina Knowles, Beyonce's mother's hair salon. And Tina was also designing the group's costume. And after group name changes, which included something fresh, cliche, the dolls, and destiny, the group eventually caught the eye of music industry executives and began to attract interest from record labels.
00:04:16 --> 00:04:33 After an initial deal with Electric Records that didn't get any kind of results or any releases, the group finally landed on the name Destiny's Child to signify a rebirth of destiny. And the group signed a production deal with producer Dwayne Wiggins and finally were signed by Columbia Records in 1997.
00:04:33 --> 00:04:58 Watching all the girls' time footage is pretty amazing. Like, they were so talented as these tiny little 8 to 11-year-olds. Like, it's absolutely insane. And, you know, I know everyone, of course, singles out Beyonce. But even back then, like, if you watch that Star Search performance, she has the charisma already. Like, she has the confidence. And it's pretty amazing to watch. But...
00:04:58 --> 00:05:22 raw talent does only get you so far and i think she clearly had a big drive as well you know and of course her family kind of being so supportive of that helps also but you could tell that she was determined and and really put her absolute all into developing her skills so yeah it's really really impressive to watch for sure i can see like looking at them rapping and dancing like the whole 90s baggie style was so popular with groups at the time like
00:05:22 --> 00:05:35 Oh my gosh, when you think about it. The rapping thing that they have long since abandoned in a certain way. In your face, boom, bap, yeah. Coming on live with the staff. Like...
00:05:36 --> 00:06:01 It's really cute. You know, back in the day, debuting as a kid was really popular in hip hop and R&B. Like, of course, like in pop, like typically with a lot of white children. But like hip hop and R&B, if you were a kid and you were in a group, like you're great because, you know, they had the Jackson 5 and like New Edition. And then like in the 90s, you got like Boyz II Men. They were pretty young when they got signed. And then even younger, you had another Bad Creation, Subway, Aaliyah, you know, 702. Like those kids are so young.
00:06:01 --> 00:06:19 And it's kind of a little, like, uncomfortable thinking about how, like, kids are being, like, commodified to, like, make music. I get it. It's fun. But it's also a label for other kids who have a dream. But looking at them and their performances and then, like, developing, I can see why they didn't exactly get signed at the time or get a lot of, like...
00:06:19 --> 00:06:35 fanfare at the time because honestly there was already groups that did what they were doing and also it's interesting to see how many industry people have met them since they were kids so there's people that's in the industry now that have known Beyonce since she was literally a like a single digit kid yes so things like that I'm just like
00:06:35 --> 00:07:00 That's crazy. And it's not even like it's nepotism or anything like that. Like one of those little, you know, buzzwords that we hear now is actual just like hard work, grit, very Joe Jackson-esque without the crazy beating of the children. But, you know, it's interesting to see that kind of drive being instilled in his children. You know, because a lot of parents, they want to sing. They try and the kid ditches it and then the kids are like, no, we want we want this. So all the kids wanted it.
00:07:00 --> 00:07:22 And I was reading Matthew Noel's book, The Untold Story, like while we were prepping for this. And it's kind of fascinating to hear about the business side of things as well. Because like you mentioned, there were some really pivotal people that kind of just happened to show up at good times, you know, that really played such a huge role and believed in these girls and their potential. And none of this would have been accomplished without those pivotal people.
00:07:22 --> 00:07:39 entering the self-titled era with Destiny's Child's first album, Destiny's Child. And in November 1997, the single No No No was released by Destiny's Child and came with a creative strategy. Released two versions of the same song at the same time to all radio and video formats.
00:07:57 --> 00:08:00 No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no
00:08:07 --> 00:08:35 No No No Part 1 was produced by Vincent Herbert and Rob Fusari, and it was a slower, more sensual ballad. And No No No Part 2, on the other hand, was more funky, more upbeat, and remixed, and produced by the acclaimed artist and producer Wyclef Jean of the Fugees. And as the story would go, Wyclef suggested that Beyonce sing the song quickly, and her sassy, rhythmic approach became her signature style. Which is very true. That rap-y style.
00:08:35 --> 00:08:44 Okay, so first off, these girls were only around 15 during these songs, and watching the videos, they look grown. They look so grown. And these lyrics are very grown.
00:08:44 --> 00:09:13 You know, again, it's giving like a man wrote this, you know, that's the thing. Like, we've had these songs. Maybe it was for like a Monica or like a Brandy or like maybe like an older girl group. I think it was for Brandy. Actually, I was reading that. Yeah. Oh, shoot, look at me. Yeah. Or maybe they said like if they turned it down, they would have tried to give it to Brandy. Something like that. Anyway. Yeah. The strategy of releasing the two different versions of the song is brilliant. I love both versions. Also, I'm just surprised that this tactic hasn't been used more.
00:09:13 --> 00:09:35 You know, you're right. I think people rather just do it in visual format where it's like different video for the same song. I'm just like, eh. Yeah. But yeah, they definitely are very different. But yeah, they're both great. I love how sensual the ballad version is. And Beyonce sounds super delicate as well. And I especially love the bridge, the really long extended. No. Yeah.
00:09:35 --> 00:10:04 They're squatting down in their very tight little dresses. Oh, goodness. But all four of them look so confident on camera already. Like, you would never know that this is their debut single. Like, the training clearly paid off, for sure. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah, totally. I think I missed, like, the remix era of, like, the 90s and the 2000s, like, actually trying to re-record the vocals. I think their sound was unlike some other groups at the time, though. Like, in the beginning, like, no, no, no. Like, the part one, it does sound very typical of, like, um...
00:10:04 --> 00:10:31 any other girl group that would have been out at the time. But I think the part two definitely helped because of that rappy kind of style that White Club has suggested. Beyonce's vocals, I think her singing that lead alto definitely helped make the girl stand out as well because you didn't really have that. And then also like visually speaking, she kind of stood out, not just because she sang the way she did, but she also was the light-skinned one amongst the brown and darker-skinned girls.
00:10:31 --> 00:10:59 The whole nuance of the situation is very interesting considering who her parents are as well. It kind of has a hand in it too. Yeah, I love part two. Wyclef did an amazing job. He gave it such a good groove. And Beyonce's extra sass is great. Like from Matthew's book, he mentioned that her like kind of frustration in the way she's singing it was very real because Wyclef was really late to the session and she was really annoyed about it. I love that. We have to say though, these lyrics are very problematic.
00:11:00 --> 00:11:15 Oh, yeah. No means no, everyone. Yeah, it's a little strange. Yeah, it's given written by a man. You know, what can you do? Sorry, man. That's going to make all that sound terrible, but this is definitely written by a man. I could tell he's just hilarious. I'm like, what?
00:11:15 --> 00:11:41 And at the time, a lot of male writers and producers were definitely kind of dominating. So, yeah. All right. So, No, No, No was a very quick success. It peaked at number three on the Billboard Hot 100 and also hit the charts all over the world. And following its success, Destiny's Child's self-titled debut album was released on February 17th, 1998. And the album was produced by some of the biggest names in the industry at the time, including Wyclef Jean, Jermaine Dupri, and Daryl Simmons. Yeah.
00:11:42 --> 00:11:46 The second single from the album was With Me Part 1 featuring Jermaine Dupri.
00:11:57 --> 00:12:22 And the video features members as mythical creatures such as sirens and spider women, 50 foot woman and a genie. And these lyrics, much like no, no, no, are questionable as they feature lyrics about being the other woman reaching out to the main girlfriend. I mean, this is so not atypical in R&B. Like there's a song where literally it's called From His Woman. And basically the girl goes, hello.
00:12:22 --> 00:12:43 Barbara, this is Shirley. Like, she's calling her. Like, my intro. It has gone down in, like, R&B soul music history. Like, could you have ever get a phone call? This is what this song is doing. So it's not like a concept that's completely foreign, so I can understand why they did it. And I wish they hadn't done it with such, like, these little girls. Like, what happened?
00:12:44 --> 00:13:13 The problem is, though, is that a lot of the album actually has songs about that, too. Like, a lot of the topics on this album are definitely, like you said, just written by older men or just older people in general. Because it's very adult. But, you know, they were still figuring out their sound. There are some decent songs on it. Yes. And I love, I have to shout out their version of Sail On by Lionel Richie. It's so beautiful. But I think now's a good time. Because With Me, Part 1, I don't love the song. It's okay.
00:13:13 --> 00:13:37 But the harmonies in it are so good. And I think we need to talk about some of the other members because I know we've given Beyonce some flowers already. But Latavia, her alto voice is so good. It's so grounded. It's super strong. The whole blend throughout the whole album with Latavia. I really pick her out every time. Kelly...
00:13:37 --> 00:14:05 She got to sing the second verse, right, for With Me Part 1. So she gets some moments in this. She is truly the second lead vocal. And I love Kelly's range. Like, she's thick and kind of gooey. And it's very different from Beyonce's voice. And they definitely play off each other really well. And Latoya has a nice kind of airiness to her voice as well. And she tends to lead the choruses, right? So, yeah, I think the whole vocal dynamic, even though Beyonce was the lead singer and was already seen as the star, right? Mm-hmm.
00:14:05 --> 00:14:28 the other three were holding it down. Oh, yeah, totally. Totally. I think the song that was out, like you said, were interesting to say, like, birthday. That one was like a precursor to cater to you. I mean, it was. Woo! But they sounded good on it. And that's the thing. They sounded good. Like, the girls could handle the lyrics. And even when they were really young, they had, like, little love songs. Like, this is...
00:14:28 --> 00:14:58 along with the book that you read, there is an untold, the Destiny Child story, like, album that came out with Girls' Time, too. So, like, Kire, I know there were kids, like, harmonizing and whatnot, but you could hear the intention in their voice when they were super young. And even now, like, they know what they're singing about. And they were so willing and so hungry to get it right. And it's nice to hear it because when you do watch them perform live, it's like they're really into it. Like, these performances around this time was, they were very, like, humble. You could totally see
00:14:58 --> 00:15:27 And hear what they were to each other in the group. You know, the chemistry was there. But also, like, Latavia being the soprano. She wasn't, like, the bam, bam kind of dancer. But Latavia being that rooted kind of singer, she was giving you, like, she was giving you body, but also giving you body and the vocals. Like, it was just so interesting to kind of see it. They were excited to be there. They were willing to put in the work. And, like, all of their practice did, like, lead up to this moment, these moments. And it's really pure. Like, the purest it probably was ever going to be.
00:15:27 --> 00:15:54 So the group also released the single Illusion, featuring Wyclef Jean and Proz. And both singles also did well commercially, hitting number 9 and number 13 respectively on the Billboard Hot 100. But despite the success of the singles, the album was only a moderate success overall. So it did win a Soul Train Award and received decent reviews from critics, but it peaked at number 67 on the Billboard Top 200 and didn't fare much better around the world.
00:15:54 --> 00:16:14 But the group's name was out there and industry bigwigs and the general public were starting to take notice. To close out the era, the group got the opportunity to release Get on the Bus, a single from the soundtrack of the movie Why Do Fools Fall in Love, which was worked on by the dream team Timbaland and Missy Elliott.
00:16:17 --> 00:16:25 Now you're fighting my stuff, and this is what you know I really care, there's no more room
00:16:26 --> 00:16:51 And a fun fact, Aaliyah was actually helping out with the dancers on the set of this music video, which blows my mind because I hate when people try to put Beyonce and Aaliyah against each other. But I digress. Get on the Bus is one of my favorites, actually. And it's funny because I don't think a lot of American fans know about it because it wasn't really a single over here and it wasn't on the album. But it actually was a hit in a lot of different countries. And Timbaland killed this.
00:16:51 --> 00:17:19 Like, the drums on this are so cool, and I love how nonchalant they sing the chorus. Yeah, you know, Get Up The Bus is interesting because you got some of, like, the super friends. Like, that's what they were calling themselves at the time. It was, like, Aaliyah, Magoo, Genuine, like, the whole collective from the basement of, like, Jodeci. There's a lot of, like, history that goes into, like, what the relationship is. But, you know, the super friends, I like this song because it was something different for Destiny's Child, but it was not the sound that they were going to go into. Yeah. So, again...
00:17:19 --> 00:17:35 All it takes is just like a one yes or no for like, hey, do you want to do this song? No, we're not going. That completely changes what you're going to do with your life, right? So it's always so interesting to see like these kind of worlds collide, like a crossover event in a DC movie or like a Marvel movie. It's like, oh my God.
00:17:35 --> 00:18:03 This person and that person coming together. I'm so glad that Kelly got the second verse. Again, it kind of makes me think like, oh, you know, it makes me wonder if like Beyonce was like, she's a star. Or if it was because she was the only one that was pushed to the forefront. Because as you mentioned, the girls were all kind of giving you face at one point or another. I've said that they all have their own kind of charms. But who was the one that people would see for the predominant parts of the video? It would be Beyonce. Beautiful girl, beautiful, talented, can sing her booty off.
00:18:03 --> 00:18:07 But when you're not given a fighting chance, it kind of makes things a little bit...
00:18:08 --> 00:18:36 hard for you to be seeing, you know? We'll talk more a little bit about the whole dynamic of the group later on, but let's continue because we're now entering the next era. So with the momentum picking up, Destiny's Child quickly went to work on their second album, which was released in July 1999, called The Writings on the Wall. And this era provided the group's breakthrough moment. Every single was a worldwide hit, and the album cemented their status as one of the biggest girl groups in music history.
00:18:36 --> 00:18:51 Yes, indeed. And the group was more hands-on creatively this time and enlisted a brand new crop of writers and producers, including Rodney Darkchild-Jerkens, Missy Elliott, and Kandi Burris. The lead single from this album was Bills, Bills, Bills.
00:19:05 --> 00:19:35 This song generated some controversy and backlash from critics and audience who felt the lyrics were overly materialistic and encouraged women to be financially dependent on men. And the song was a massive hit despite that and became the group's first number one song on the Billboard Hot 100. And the video took place in a hair salon, an homage to Tina, Beyonce's mother, and the hair salon she owned where the girls used to rehearse in. So I think that's really cute. And honestly, that's what girls talk they mess anyway. Like...
00:19:35 --> 00:20:03 When I'm getting my hair done, you're there for hours. It's like, oh my God, I can't stand this man. Girl, what'd he do? You know, the hairstyle is like, girl, listen, it's not my business. But that is so typical. That's like a watering hole for a lot of like Black women. And I'm glad that the song was done by Candy of Escape. Like, again, as I've mentioned, Escape came before, SWV came before Destiny's Child. So it's interesting because she also did Scrubs, right? And it's crazy to see how...
00:20:03 --> 00:20:28 a girl group that DC possibly looked up to has a member that's writing a song for them. Like escape was another super harmony, heavy group. Yes. Shout out to tonight. That song's amazing. So I love to hear the stacks and what candy may have been thinking at the time. And of course everyone else was writing too, but I mean, candy was the one who's usually singing leads at sometimes or killing the bridges. Like, so the songs versus are really good going back to like bills, bills, bills being controversial. Yeah.
00:20:28 --> 00:20:47 It's annoying because I'm like the verses literally lay the groundwork of why they're asking for this man to pay for bills. Well, all people hear is, can you pay my bills? As if she didn't just say, now you're using my car. Now you're using my cell phone. Yeah. You know, like something like that. It's so funny to me. I'm like, what? You didn't hear any of that?
00:20:47 --> 00:21:12 The worst is when there's controversy and they're actually complete and accurate at the same time. Like, at least do your research first before you start causing all this drama, you know? Anyway, so there it is. That processed guitar that has been used and replicated throughout pop music to this day, right? It's that whatever processing they do there.
00:21:12 --> 00:21:32 It's so iconic. And it's there throughout the whole album as well. And throughout, again, just a lot of music. But yes, I love this song. First off, they were still only 17 at this point, which is absolutely insane. Can they even have credit cards at that point? Without their parents signing off on it.
00:21:32 --> 00:21:55 Oh, man. But yeah, here they are co-writing, though, now. And they're such mature songs. They're such smart songs. And there are just so many hooks. And the harmony, again, this time, they're just so smart, like the way they come in, because they emphasize certain lyrics. They create sing-along moments. They create participation with the audience. It's just good writing. It's insane. Yeah, totally. Yeah.
00:21:55 --> 00:22:14 I agree. I think it reminds me of like respect. What you want? Who? Baby, I got it. Who? With this one. You have to use my car. Come on. Like you're going to do it. You have to do it. Their next single will kind of follow the same old just hooky part everywhere kind of a structure. And the next single was Bugaboo. Oh.
00:22:33 --> 00:22:51 And though the song was not a huge chart hit, it contributed to the massive sales of the album across the world. The Writings on the Wall album, which featured themes of female empowerment and different aspects of relationships, went on to sell over 13 million copies worldwide, becoming one of the biggest girl group albums of all time.
00:22:52 --> 00:23:10 I love this album so much. I've listened to it so much. Like I was looking at the album booklet. It's like tattered. Yeah. Because it's very hard to understand the lyrics because they're so fast. So I remember like really reading this one, trying to learn these songs.
00:23:10 --> 00:23:34 but aside from the singles like oh man i could list almost every single one of these songs as a great song like so good confessions hate ladies like it's all amazing and again the writing's mature um there are definitely some questionable lyrics again there's a lot of songs about infidelity yet again uh and especially with how young they are it's like do any of them really know what they're singing about here but anyway
00:23:34 --> 00:23:47 Regardless, though, the writing is great. The album is so good. The harmonies are even better than the first album. Like the blend has improved even more. The confidence has grown. And there's just intention behind every choice that they make.
00:23:48 --> 00:24:08 Yeah. I think it's interesting to, because the sophomore slump is real and they didn't hit it. No. Which is interesting. Is it because they did have a huge success or was it just more like, the proper ingredients were added to a talented group? You know what I'm saying? So, ah, it's nice to see the second attempt. You know, the second album was like that one.
00:24:08 --> 00:24:25 moment. But yeah, it's so interesting about Bugaboo. It's like it's not that rapping that she does. Like, Beyonce does it now. You know? And because I'm a fan of Escape and even Candy's solo stuff, she didn't go far with it. I could totally hear Candy singing it.
00:24:25 --> 00:24:47 Or even like with no scrubs, Tiny wrote that with Candy. But the tone, the way it was arranged, Candy has like a specific style that you can tell it's her. It's like fast. It's witty. It's like relatable. It's, I mean, no scrubs, bugaboo, bills, bills, bills. Those are all pretty much like this guy ain't ish. What the heck? You know, so...
00:24:47 --> 00:25:15 And there's a whole bunch of people, male, female, whatever, you can relate to it. And I think this song is iconic because even now there's a girl group in Korea called Bugaboo. This song is an absolute time capsule because they're talking about all these obsolescent... Pagers. Yeah, MCI. Yeah, MCI. Like, come on now. It's crazy. And this video, actually, for it not being a chart hit, was like the first video that debuted on TRL for a group. For the group. So, like, the girls were really starting to get the attention that they deserved.
00:25:15 --> 00:25:36 And it's crazy because I get that TRL was like the place to be and other people were kind of showing the girls love. But like TRL at the time, considering the time of like where media was, that kind of was like, quote unquote, crossover, crossing over. It's like you've gotten the white audience to say, oh, this song is fun. I like it, blah, blah, blah. At the time meant a lot.
00:25:36 --> 00:26:05 The video for Bugaboo, however, is so strange. Very strange. The girls running from Bugaboos, I get that. The locker room scene with Kobe Bryant, RIP. We love that. But them turning into cheerleaders while they're in the locker room, I guess they're meant to be high school girls going shopping and hanging out with their friends. So at the end, I'm like, okay, I get it. Kind of not really because they meet with the guys at the end. But I do appreciate that they kind of had an HBCU moment at the end with the drum line. Again, super random. But it's very on brand with Beyonce.
00:26:05 --> 00:26:26 wanted for like I mean they were all like high school at the time right so for them to have like a fake prom fake homecoming game HBCU style even though it said UCLA whatever it kind of was like kind of cute but also just random like I said I think it was more like hey we want to do this as opposed to like some of the cohesive thought you know
00:26:26 --> 00:26:49 Well, it's kind of ironic also because none of them did go to high school, right? Exactly. Yes, they had their experience. This was their experience. Exactly. It's funny because Kelly has since said that Bugaboo is her least favorite Destiny's Child song. And mainly because she hates the lyrics. But I love the lyrics. I think they're so fun. So what? You bought a pair of shoes. So petty.
00:26:49 --> 00:27:08 So even with the massive success of the album and the growing love for the group across the world, Destiny's Child was facing internal struggles that had been bubbling up. So as a reminder, Matthew Knowles, Beyonce's father, was the manager of the group. And of course, Beyonce was also the group's lead singer.
00:27:08 --> 00:27:32 The first red flag for the group came when Latavia became sick and could not go on tour in Europe. And Matthew had replaced her with a dancer and the group went on tour without her. This immediately raised some eyebrows, of course, and members Latavia and Latoya started asking more questions. They suspected favoritism and felt that their voices weren't being heard. In addition, they were noticing an even distribution of monies. Oh, no.
00:27:32 --> 00:28:00 And then the two members decided they wanted their own business manager, an advocate for them, and to have better communication with Matthew. So Matthew was sent a letter from Latoya and Latavia's lawyer, and he did not react well. He felt it showed a lack of trust and that they should know their place. Beyonce was the star, and the group could go on without the other members. And with that, Latoya and Latavia were no longer members of Destiny's Child.
00:28:00 --> 00:28:18 So Latoya and Latavia have since stressed that their issues were strictly with management and not with Beyonce and Kelly, but they would later file a lawsuit against the other two members, Matthew and the record label for breach of partnership and fiduciary duty. And this lawsuit would eventually be settled outside of court.
00:28:18 --> 00:28:44 All right. You know, this is one of those what if things I was talking about. You know, a yes or no could have changed a lot of things. Like, what if the girls had gotten more parts? What if? You know what I'm saying? What if? Group's biggest issues are always line distribution. Girl group members don't have the best distribution, like vocal distribution, like at all. Like, it's a shame because I guess it's easier to record one person who can sing.
00:28:44 --> 00:29:00 But if all of them can sing, does that kind of represent whether or not you can write a song or not? If the song is good, the song is good regardless of who's singing it. Like, yes, it does sound nicer to have a soprano sing this part or like an alto has a brighter tone sing this part, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
00:29:00 --> 00:29:25 then write a good song that fits the voices of all the people involved. But again, I guess that's just really too complicated. Like, I don't know. When you have your parents who are thinking about you at the end of the day, they're always going to pick you. They're not going to kick their kid out of the group. Even if she was the issue, they weren't going to kick her out of the group. Like, oh, well, Beyonce, no. Like, this is not going to happen. And Matthew as the adult...
00:29:25 --> 00:29:52 taking things personally and not professionally irritates me because you are a grown man upset at like 16, 17 year old girls for feeling like their life is unfair. Like they've given you their whole life and trust at this point. The least you can do is hear them out. And then around this time, there was like rumors, like alleged dating with like Jagged Edge and two members of Jagged Edge and Latavia and Latoya kind of talking to them. The age gap was there. There was issues on the tour bus, all this other alleged mess. And I'm just like...
00:29:52 --> 00:30:15 All the factors that went into this comes across as really shady and petty and not as professional as Mr. Knowles has been trying to portray it to be. And that irritates me. At the end of the day, they're minors. They're minors at the end of the day. You should have sat down and spoken with them, especially if they are so pivotal in the careers of your daughters. They weren't looking for just Beyonce, to my knowledge. Y'all went in as a group.
00:30:15 --> 00:30:34 You know, again, it sucks because I mean, Latoya Lativa did try to make it with another group, Angel, but they did not get very far, which is an absolute shame because they actually can sing. But it's just wrong people, wrong songs, I guess, whatever. It doesn't mean that they're bad, but it's one of those things where it's like it just didn't work out for them. It's a shame.
00:30:35 --> 00:30:59 Yeah, it's a really interesting dynamic. I think so. I went down the hole of watching all the interviews and reading all the interviews and, of course, read Matthew's book as well. I think on his end is kind of weird when you look at it from the management side. Not only, like you said, are the parents involved of only one, the only parents of one of the members, even though Kelly was kind of a pseudo daughter of theirs. Right. Yeah. Yeah.
00:30:59 --> 00:31:29 But then Beyonce is also the clear star. And we can get into whether she really was the clear star or if they just pushed her to be that way. But even from reading the interviews with people that were working with them when they were girls time, they all kind of did say that Beyonce did have something extra special about her. The thing is, they knew from the start that this was a platform for later things, right? This group was just step one of their path towards global stardom.
00:31:29 --> 00:31:49 but you're a group. So like uneven distribution of money and like all that stuff is messed up. They're all still on that stage. And if they're not the ones singing the lead vocals, that's the role that they were given and they played them well. Right, right. And so that part of it is pretty crazy. So yeah, I think it's,
00:31:49 --> 00:32:15 It was kind of just always going to happen if Matthew was not going to give them at least equal voice in decisions and stuff that were being made. Yeah. Unfortunately. Yeah. If you're dealing with children and money, that's when it gets kind of funky. Because then with the money thing, it's like, I'm not getting as much and your kid is. So then it turns into even more of like you're favoring her. Matthew having a hand in it and being the administrative kind of lead and then.
00:32:15 --> 00:32:38 Tina being the creative, like, who gets the best outfits, what fits their quote-unquote personalities kind of thing. Suspicious. Sorry, y'all. Sorry. Yeah. So from reading the book, Matthew's book, about this whole situation, he definitely did sound petty. He was very mad that they used their lawyer to send a note. He was like, I hate lawyers. They always add so much drama. Yeah.
00:32:38 --> 00:33:04 If they had to resort to their lawyer sending a note, I'm very sure they would not have resorted to that if they felt there was an easier method where they could actually talk to Matthew directly, right? Like, them needing to resort to that is a reflection of his management style and the fact that they feared him. Like, they did not feel they could talk to him about their feelings. Yeah. Ooh, honey, honey. I don't think he realized how he sounded. Yeah.
00:33:04 --> 00:33:24 Yeah, no, not at all. But what I would say, though, and what Latavia, I believe, had said in an interview was she wished that she had spoken more about the situation to Beyonce and Kelly, because from what it sounded like, they actually weren't talking to them about it. So then when this all happened, it was kind of all kind of.
00:33:24 --> 00:33:44 them sending this note through their lawyer to Matthew and then Matthew relaying it back to Beyonce and Kelly and then being like so we should cut them out right we should they should exactly we can replace them yeah and then I guess and then Beyonce and Kelly are probably like I guess you know let's keep it going if that's what we need to do to keep this going then okay
00:33:44 --> 00:34:06 No, you're right, because even with some of the interviews, like, Beyonce was upset a little bit in the beginning, but then as the interviews kept progressing, it turned to a, well, we got who we need to be here, and everybody works together really well, and I was like, ooh, Jesus. But yes, despite the drama, the momentum was still picking up, and the group was scheduled not just for more tour dates and promotional events, but they needed to film the video for their next single, Say My Name.
00:34:06 --> 00:34:33 With Beyoncé and Tina, her mother, leading the audition, Latavia and Latoya were quickly replaced by Michelle Williams, a former background singer and theater performer, and Farrah Franklin, a young dancer who ironically was featured in the Bills Bills Bills music video. The now iconic music video has become a staple in pop culture, and the song has become one of the group's timeless signature hits. Say My Name became the group's second number one single on the Billboard Hot 100 and won multiple awards, including two Grammys.
00:34:43 --> 00:34:50 And this song is, yeah, I mean, it deserves it.
00:34:51 --> 00:35:21 I mean, this is one of the best songs of all time, I would say, actually. Like, it's absolutely perfect. You have the staccato cadence of the verses, the energetic pre-chorus, the catchy chorus that's impossible to not sing along to. Then you add in the very effective music video where it's just the poses every four counts. And like, how could you not do that? Like, you have to do it now when you hear the song. It's impossible to not at least imagine the poses happening, right?
00:35:21 --> 00:35:40 To be fair, I think with the member change up as well, they sent the press release announcing the two new members the same time that the music video premiered. So they kind of used the drama to market the music video. So to be fair, you could argue that the song was only as big as it was, partly.
00:35:40 --> 00:35:57 because of the drama at the time. And people were curious to see the new members. But at the end of the day, the song is great. You cannot take that away from it, of course. But could they not have taken an hour of studio time just to have Michelle and Farrah record over Latoya and Latavia's harmonies, though? Oh, no. Like, come on.
00:35:57 --> 00:36:20 Not at all. Why? And then you have the footage of Latoya and Latavia being like, we didn't know that we were kicked out until we saw Say My Name on TV with these two new ladies pretending to lip sync over our vocals. Yeah, that interview. They were like on the couch. I'm like, this interviewer is just like, so did you know? No, they were so messy back in the day. Like, damn.
00:36:20 --> 00:36:46 They're like, oh, no, that's crazy. Right. Yes, it is. And they fed right into it. You know, like looking at this video is it's crazy because literally I can understand why they were like, we didn't know. Because weeks, maybe two weeks before this video was shot, the girls, there's an interview, the girls talking about it. Like Latoya was like, yeah, we're filming the video for Say My Name, but like next week or something. She literally said it. So I'm just like.
00:36:46 --> 00:36:59 Oh, my God. And it's crazy. Like, it stinks for them. And looking at who they replaced the girls with, they got someone who was tall and someone who was short. I don't think people really realize how Epco that is.
00:37:00 --> 00:37:22 We need a short girl. Damn it. Oh, God. Hey, you're cute. You know what I'm saying? So, yeah, they got a tall girl and a short girl to fit the silhouette. And it's, again, going back to me saying that Latavia could really dance. Like, I was watching the Say My Name video for this. And watching Farrah do the gay, gay, gay, gay, the little chest rolls. She did it so wrong. And it was pissing me off. Because I'm like, Latavia would have ate that out.
00:37:22 --> 00:37:46 the type of way hey that Farrah was on Beyonce's right and she's in there yeah yeah yeah and she's in there doing it the wrong way leading with her hips and stuff I'm like oh my god pissing me off you have two people who one didn't really dance hip hop commercial style and another girl who says that she's a dancer but not really as good as the other girls being lumped up having to learn choreography in such a short amount of time
00:37:46 --> 00:38:08 Like, I can see why that whole post thing happened because there was a video that got scrapped, apparently, before this one was like the final selection. So kudos for them. But it's just like, holy crap, having to rush and put all this together. That's so stressful. Oh, yeah. I mean, you have to remember, as we've been saying, like Latoya and Latavia were with Beyonce and Kelly for 10 years at this point. Yeah.
00:38:08 --> 00:38:36 So the blend was there. They do all the choreography well. And then it's like, okay, you've got two weeks to learn this and slot right in, learn all the choreo. And Michelle had mentioned that she had never danced before she joined Destiny's Child as well. So good for her for doing all that. But yeah, it definitely is a crazy situation. And you have to remember at the time, they got a lot of hate too. Farrah and Michelle were under a lot of pressure. The fans were not happy.
00:38:36 --> 00:39:03 Yeah, that was, oh my God. Oh, yeah. I mean, I would hate to be like the replacement for anyone. Like, there's another group that's like the Sugar Babes. We talked about them on our show. They've had more iterations than this group for sure. But it's just like this pressure with being the new girl when people are like two albums deep. And then they're like, you know, it's not the voices. But yeah, I can only imagine what it's like to hear your voice.
00:39:03 --> 00:39:33 on some puppets, essentially. Like, mm-hmm. That's what it probably looked like to the girls. Like, oh, those are my that's my ventriloquism at that point. Like, it's my way. And also the way they edited it, because there's other female dancers also in each scene, you can't fully tell sometimes who the new members actually are. And I think they did that on purpose. Yes. The final single from the Writing on the Wall album was Jumpin' Jumpin'. And again, it was a massive hit across the world. Ladies and gentlemen at home
00:39:42 --> 00:39:48 I love Jumpin' Jumpin'. I think it's actually one of my favorite Destiny's Child songs ever. Oh, yeah. It's so much fun.
00:39:48 --> 00:40:15 I think they did the face tracking before it was cool. So shout out to Joseph Kahn for being a, you know, a trendsetter. But I didn't see too much of Farrah in this video, actually. I remember seeing her, but they were like. And also, we're a few months in now. You're telling me you can't re-record this song? I mean, we did not get the remix, actually, that does have Michelle and Farrah on it. But like, you're still lip syncing over Latoya Latoya. That's always annoyed me. Like, even in the concerts, years later.
00:40:16 --> 00:40:37 They were still there in the back. You know, you know, you know, I guess once you paid for it, apparently rumor has it not rumor, but like in one of their, you know, pop up videos for the anniversary of the album three years ago, they said they recorded the writings on the wall in three weeks. So whatever whatever rush they seem to have been in, they had that window and it was like, listen.
00:40:37 --> 00:41:06 We may not have time to re-record right now. So just, I think that was a reason why too. I think it's partially like F it and also just like whatever was going on in their schedule, they were like, F it. Or at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter, right? Because Beyonce's vocal is there. I don't know. Anyway, despite the growing success of the group, the drama was not over just yet. So the new member Farrah, who had been in the group around six months by that point, left Destiny's Child.
00:41:09 --> 00:41:27 Time for a recess break. Tune into part two of our Pop 101 Destiny's Child class for our thoughts on Farrah's departure, the Survivor album, more lawsuits, and the members' attempts at solo careers. And don't forget to follow us at CCTV Pops on all social media. See you over at part two.