Special thanks to our amazing fellow K-Pop podcasts for contributing their thoughts!

Listen to and follow Ask Me About K-Pop @amakpoppod https://open.spotify.com/show/1W4ooIQjl5q410uJ22xBCX?si=bbd74712b0ed4e1a 
Listen to and follow MIA2K - A Kpop Podcast @mia2kpodcast https://open.spotify.com/show/0dKUhgsI07ca9Ygurr0NQH?si=66f425e650ba4894 
Listen to and follow NYC Kpop Queens @nyckpopqueens https://open.spotify.com/show/4OkOzdLzXsmXvWx2h2g9G6?si=35c06a001de7493d

Join hosts Chris and Chantel Nicole as they discuss (or rant!) about the trend of K-Pop artists lip-syncing during performances. They explore why lip-syncing has become so common, and whether singing ability is less important now. Throughout the episode, they share insights from K-Pop fans and experts (Ask Me About Kpop, MIA2K - A KPop Podcast, NYC Kpop Queens), break down terms like MR, AR, and Live AR, discuss the use of autotune and share their thoughts on having live bands in concerts.

References:

• SHINee - “Dream Girl” Live at Inkigayo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4igohRynyoU
• S#arp - “Tell Me Tell Me” Live at Music Camp https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km5btKWG6iE&ab_channel=MBCkpop
• Milli Vanilla performing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yp0pZZYYwaE&ab_channel=DenisJosimar
• Ashlee Simpson SNL lip-syncing fail https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lWJCfbMw0Yo
• Shinhwa lip-syncing each other’s parts https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJR4LFCds1g
• EXO - “Growl” at Music Core https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVUBtY3A2ak
• B.A.P - “One Shot” Dance Version https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C530QB8SP2Y
• Ailee & Hyolyn - “Bang Bang” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3j5n-wH0Ys
• Wonder Girls - “Tell Me” Live at Inkigayo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0HQl04M01w
• NCT 127 recording “Ay-Yo” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnI9kY_V5EE
• NewJeans - “Ditto” Live at Music Bank https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtl8b7H4kEo
• NMIXX - “How You Like That” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Sj5bENSmK8
• aespa - “Savage” Live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9o-hlEJQKQU&ab_channel=aespa
• GOT7 - Kiss The Radio singing “Loser” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rqflj8qP4fI
• NCT 127 - “Sticker” Live https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sa-gt9nGxcw&ab_channel=NCT127
• NCT 127 - “2 Baddies” with LIVE VOCALS https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J99LmFyXyAk&ab_channel=NEOCITY7
• Momo (TWICE) - “More & More” Encore on Show Champion https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VO-cQIxIEoI
• NewJeans - “OMG” Encore on Inkigayo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20mMVe-gEPs
• IVE - “Strawberry Moon” Performance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjxDYjuhxXc
• BTS - fake band at Permission to Dance https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fhgVIzTQvgQ
• Joohoney (Monsta X) playing drums https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MYVdJ20DLk
• EXO Acoustic session - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXp3ted3kbs 

Transcript:

viewer discretion is advised your fave will be criticized that's Chris that's Shan and we are CCTV the non-stop pop show and today we are ranting about or well discussing lip syncing King live vocals and live bands in K-pop [Music] looking for an awesome Global pop music podcast well Chris and I have the inside scoot with extensive experience performing on stage and working at record labels so come join us in these conversations and also on patreon at patreon.com cctvpost and become part of our amazing crew including Lisette Lily Emily Kevin and Juliet subscribe now and let's explore the world of pop music together and big shout out to Christina who left us an amazing review on Apple podcast we see you boo thank you so much and we're so glad you're enjoying the show yes thank you Christina um all right well before we get started we also have a few more shout outs because we have some very awesome contributors to today's episode some amazing K-pop podcasts have given us their thoughts and so we're going to shout out ask me about K-pop NYC K-pop queens and Mia 2K definitely go check out their shows which are available on all podcast platforms yeah it's just like ours exactly so as we mentioned we are here to discuss K-pop live vocals and performances so let's see what's what's happening what's what we're thinking about because we've been trying to talk about this for a really long time and I think ever since the beginning of our show like this was something that we listed as like we need to talk about it but here we are two years later and we're ready to talk about it um I mean both of us have been to a ton of concerts and performances and we also love watching performances so this has built up a standard over time right um and I'm pretty sure some people do know but maybe if you don't know I actually used to do a lot of musical acting myself and I sing myself so when it comes to live performances I understand the the grueling nature of singing and dancing especially like how many days a week as a musical actress and also I understand what it's like to have all that adrenaline popping a pumping excuse me and choreography going as a recording artist that's a pop musician as well so it's interesting to kind of I guess delve into it but then again we're not here to talk about Western pop or pop performances from you know the US specifically we're gonna talk about K-pop performances yes and we do of course understand that western music culture is very different from South Korea the standards are different but we are a global pop music show and um we think we're very well versed in what the standard should be and what they are um we also do want to know we are second gen K-pop fans originally that is where kind of our big passion for K-pop started and singing live was much more common in that era um and it's honestly just become something we expected like part of what I thought was so impressive when I started watching Kpop performances was that they were singing live while doing very impressive show-stopping choreography you know and so it's become just something that I think should be important um but yeah K-pop Idols now do lip sync a lot more um and there are a lot of reasons for that which we will go through um but of course artists have been lip syncing for decades all around the world yes um and it kind of goes through waves of acceptance right like I feel like in like the 90s it was okay really um a lot of the 90s TV shows and stuff though didn't even have real microphones you know you know what you're right because like back in the day listen if you're a black music fan Soul Train they weren't singing live no they didn't even have bikes a lot at the time yeah yeah yeah um yeah and then we hit like the 2000s with like the Ashley Simpson Scandal and then like live singing became much more important um yeah and then now we're in a time where especially with during the pandemic as well where everyone was just like recording things at home and stuff and they didn't have the equipment to do those live you know vocals and everything either so then it became this kind of like processed thing and then that has just kind of stayed now um so yeah it's been kind of interesting to observe as a global pop music fan yeah what wow what a thing to point out you're so right like everything became so extra polished because it's like well we got to give you the concert experience at home um so with this conversation we're going to talk about Kpop and separate performances into two main types you have the television programs and the broadcast such as M countdown inkigayo and music bank and the annual award shows then you have the concerts including headline tours domestic or International okay or other promotional performances at festivals Etc so let's hop right into it all right so first let's talk about why Kpop artists lip sync in the first place um so just thinking about just the technical aspects of things it takes a lot of time and energy and people and equipment to set up for live performances on TV you need sound checks all the mics need to work you need to hook everything up so the Sound Engineering and the mixing is right and there's just a lot of people involved a lot of time involved and a lot of these shows don't have time for that um so sometimes a show or a venue might actually request that artist's lip sync so that they can avoid having all the extra equipment extra personnel and everything and they can kind of just cycle through people quicker um so sometimes it's not always the Artist's Choice right yeah right and one funny example of this from years ago was xinhua they once got a little annoyed that they had to lip sync and they like ended up lip syncing each other's parts and one of them didn't even come out with a microphone and they were just they were like we're not gonna bother pretending that this is real um uh yeah another technical aspect of it as I'm sure you can see a lot of K-pop artists use headset mics right um for most performances because of the crazy choreography which we will talk about later but headset and mics as we were told by Steve Anderson Music director extraordinaire yeah headset Mike their sound is just not good uh yeah in comparison um he worked with our another favorite group of our steps and he actually made them never use headset mics despite them having done that for all their shows in the 90s just because he wanted the sound to be good for live vocals so yeah that's another aspect dude I'm sure you can see it too like sometimes you can't hear it or like it just it sounds awful um if their mics are on so yeah that's another aspect as well and of course you can't do that choreography with handheld mics you know this is true okay yeah no okay but what you're saying with I've done both I've done the the mic in the on the forehead I've done the mic on the cheek yeah I've done the mic pack I've had the mic pack fall off and then the microphone is connected to my ear slide off it's so much more secure to have it in your hand like there's something I mean I've bumped my mouth with the microphone so there's a number of things that can go wrong but I always know for a fact in my hand and as long as it's in front of my face the sound's gonna come out you know so I totally I totally get what you're saying with that and and Steve's right the sound is so much more different like oh my it just and it's a for it's unfortunate a lot of fans don't even notice like sometimes you see those big ones that like extend past the face and there's like a big old you know bee in front of their face or if you see the ones that really like back in the day used to be taped to their faces you remember they still do that sometimes I still sometimes sometimes you're right you're right but yeah I think equipment is very expensive I mean I think 17 as a group didn't get in-ears for a really long time they were using their earbuds for a while I remember that phase that was rough as a fan to see awesome it was it was rough um but aside from like the technical aspect uh there is the idea of their vocal health and hectic schedules being a contributing factor as to why Kpop Idols do not use uh their live vocals on a consistent basis uh straight kids member Bangtan is famous now for this clip or mini clips of him mentioning that K-pop artists have such insane schedules so with multiple appearances and performances throughout the day their voices may be worn out out and I think that's so interesting because when I was doing musicals I was going from like school dance class and then going to musical rehearsal so I understand what it is to sit there and be talking all day or doing things all day training afterwards and then going to rehearsal for how many hours just to get up at six o'clock in the morning and do it all over again because you have to show that weekend and you had to keep running the show over and over again so I'm pretty sure their schedule is way more packed than mine but I understand that sense where it's like oh I think I might my voice might give out you know vocal rest is almost non-existent for them really um and then you you tack on the physical exhaustion uh there's so many things that go into that I mean it's tough and like you said the dancing doesn't help you know yeah and a lot of those music shows as well they film really early in the morning I believe yeah it's funny and so then after they do that they probably end up having all these other performance sectors so yeah yeah it definitely is a crazy schedule that these Idols are under so obviously not having to worry about live vocals takes off at least one aspect of the stress um so yeah definitely important and it's awesome that bang John was um very vocal about that yeah um but you know we also do have to think about the actual just like lack of singing ability or Talent um you know maybe the idols just don't sound good singing live so it's kind of just a mutual decision between everyone the label the teams like let's not even risk this let's just just lip sync and focus on the dancing um so I mean it begs an interesting question is singing ability less important in K-pop now than it used to be right because so obviously as you said your second gen fans and a lot of that era you have a lot of the vocal kings and queens right that are known for sounding almost better sometimes than the recorded vocal and they're very consistent and it's yeah it's it's all very amazing like all the time um now I don't know there aren't even as many vocal kings and queens in general and in newer groups and for example I was also watching um Island right the and hyphen formation show a couple of years ago and the group was barely shown getting singing lessons or even really working on the singing itself I think there were sometimes comments made of people didn't sound great but the dancing was the focus that's what they spent the majority of their time working on and the vocal kind of came second and if you watch the performances they clearly pitched them auto-tuned them which we'll also talk about that later as well um but yeah what do you think is singing ability less important in K-pop now than it used to be I would say yeah because even when I auditioned for um for those who don't know I actually made it to like a final round of a K-pop audition uh for Black Swan they wanted more dance clips than they did with me singing um and if I were to do dancing it would have to be a certain style like I mean even if you look at the auditions that come up on like YouTube now it's like a b lift or whatever YG or whatever company X company dance audition you never see someone sitting there singing their little hearts out with the guitar or like with the piano track it's always like I'm gonna dance my heart out here and you know flip my hair like I think it's unfortunate because it kind of bothers me to think about how second gen and even third gen um third gen was kind of when they introduced a lot more difficult choreography like I.E B.A.P on the floor doing step dancing but still rapping singing you know um so it's interesting because it's just like they people Factor dance virality over vocal virality like back in the day alien hodin singing together singing Bang Bang or aoa's um uh uh TOA and hoden and all these other vocals solo G from exid singing Chandelier even if it was tuned people tuned in to see how many different Power vocalists from different groups to sing together as opposed to them doing a dance parade doing a dance cover even the fans have reflected more interest in actually knowing the dances because it's like if you don't know the dance for the random Dance Play you're not a real fan and it's just like but second gen first gen 3rd gen got through with some tell me with some punching and pointing and it went viral so it's like I blame a little bit of both the fans and the companies not training these kids as much as possible in this terms uh and especially when they lip sync they don't get a chance to train themselves on how to punch in and punch out like for me when I'm singing when I'm recording anything I have to remember when I like oh can I do this live right now like when do when do I figure out when the background vocals come in because I have a couple raps and a couple of my songs I have to stop singing so that I can kind of rap and then take it out so you can take to get a breath but the background vocals or the backing track do its thing so I can come back and sing again these kids I'm not sure if they're like doing that where they're figuring out when to come in and come out because even when they're lipping the lip flaps are still moving and I'm like you don't if you were singing live you would stop at least one point to catch your breath yeah it's very interesting because yeah it feels like vocal Arrangement vocal thing yeah it's just vocal training in terms of live vocal training doesn't really seem to be there like I don't even think they ever really are like okay you have to sing this part like this you need to take a breath like this you know all of that just doesn't really seem to be focused on at all um even in all the behind the scenes document mentories and things like that you never see them sitting around a piano learning a live arrangement of a song you know it's always just in the dance rehearsal studio and you know of course I have watched the studio recording videos too like we were watching the NCT ones right so they these Idols can clearly sing I I don't think the talent is necessarily gone I would just say that they're not focusing on the actual training as much anymore because they can do it in the studio right um based on those clips that they do show us which of course are curated but you know um yeah yeah but yeah at the end of the day K-pop groups are basically dance crews now and you know the two of us are dancers and to be very honest the big thing that did originally get me into K-pop was because a lot of my favorite choreographers started choreographing for K-pop groups yes dance is very important to K-pop and even more so now yes but the dancing is crazy and we've said this so many times on the show but one thing I noticed because this whole past week week I've been watching kind of second gen groups and newer groups and really trying to just observe and if you look at the older K-pop groups from a couple Generations ago or even third gen with some of the groups when they're when it's their line or it's their section yeah they all do a simpler version of the choreo or sometimes not not know anything at all just stand there and do their thing or you know do a couple you know Freestyle hand things yeah or they'll just do like a more basic version of whatever the choreo the rest of the group is doing um but now it's almost the opposite if you're singing you're also doing the absolute most and you have a solo dance moment um which is absolutely crazy like I've been learning new jeans ditto which is really really fun um and but of course it's so interesting because I used to take dance classes and they would emulate the background like not the backgrounds that are not singing and you'd have to switch around watching the people who are kind of like making the pictures in the back but now you're watching the person who's singing lead come forward and do all them extra um and the people the the group members on the sides are actually doing less less which is very interesting because let's be real like it's impossible to sing live doing some of that choreo like you watch new jeans ditto like I can barely breathe by the end of it let alone sing you know it's all it's all jumping and like crazy jerking yes and so it's just absolutely insane like I get it dancing is very important but at the end of the day to me an idol is a singer and a dancer yeah and it's like the singing is just not you've got to be the full package yeah yeah it's got to be the full package um I mean okay let's be real here vocals I wouldn't say I haven't been the main focus of K-pop I wouldn't go so far to say it but I will say like the the way K-pop Idols sing now even way back then it's just it's a different kind I don't want to say it's bad but it's a different kind of like out of your range kind of singing or like listen ever since ever since you know auto-tune became a very well-known thing thanks Cher um everyone uses it right first gen uses it fourth gen like fourth gen now we're like third gen some of the girl group songs way too high back in the day for a lot of the groups I were like jet skis or like h.o.t but their choreography was difficult too because they had those like you know kick in the punching in the break dancing moves in it but they were actually singing live and they didn't actually sound that great and we actually had some commentary from one of the ladies from asked me about K-pop uh check it out hey everybody this is Shannon and Angelica from ask me about Kpop yeah and I feel like K-pop in its nature because it is so Performance Based and it is expected that the idols be hitting their dances like as hard and as perfectly as possible and that combined with then being able to Super strongly hit all of your notes after you've just been jumping and kicking around is like a real skill like even a lot of training I feel like not everyone could do that period very much like much less consistently every time yeah um but it's very interesting like we on our show we talk about first gen K-pop a lot because I find it so deeply fascinating and I love it and a like truth of first gen K-pop is that the majority of them were really bad live singers because this was like before the adoption of like auto-tune and Pitch correcting or even having having a track play and so they were all just singing Raw on those stages and sometimes they were really terrible and I think the like honest truth is if a lot of groups these days had to do the same thing they might be just as bad thanks Beth and Angelica seriously I mean they're like us they grew up with the older Generations or even if they didn't they want to retroactively see what was going on because it's like where did it come from where did this idea that we have to dance like crazy people come from um it's interesting it's really interesting because like I said like back in the day the whole r b pop thing was huge so they're dancing all hip hop but then like second gen third gen it was a lot of EDM pop music so you just having like a nice little Guru with the song but sounding really bright was the focus so it's it's again very interesting and maybe it's a sign of the times I don't I don't know but I mean I think what's funny is they did make the point of like those Idols didn't have the

and so it's almost like like maybe K-pop Idols have just never really sounded that good but just the technology has made them sound better through time that's possible too I don't know a lot of different possibilities you know what it's like the Britney Spears thing it's like can Britney sing We don't know because she lip sync so much but we think she can but we hear some recordings you know like Britney can sing she could at one point oh well oh yeah but I life happened before things got really bad life you could hear like some of the you know music it doesn't sound that great right I mean it's one of those things it's just

like a muppet like give me actual like emotes oh my god oh my god well facials are a whole other different thing performance abilities are a whole other aspect that we can rant about another day but you're right you're right bad lip syncing makes it worse that's true oh god oh but yes you're right let's move on but you know speaking of auto-tuning and why it's being more used now back to what you were saying about it like you know uh because of the lockdown situation it was like hey let's give them the best quality we can with the situation we're not in that situation so what is this whole like urge or this whole like pressure on Perfection what is that about you know yeah well I think that's always been K-pop right this push for Perfection yeah um and because you know the fans are eagle-eyed like if you mistake one thing if your voice cracks once if you miss a word or something like they would catch it you know um if you miss a dance move they would catch it you know so it's like there's so much pressure on every single aspect of the performance so again by lip syncing you do remove some of that pressure right you know the vocals there so you can focus on the rest of it and you know it's good um but it is interesting because I think I don't remember back when I got into K-pop and kind of the idea of Idols not being human right they're supposed to be just so talented that it's just unworldly and to me or what I thought was actually part of that was the fact that they were like singing live and doing dances that were kind of really energetic and they were able to handle it despite you know sometimes there would be a voice crack or something but like the regular human couldn't do what they could do yeah you know yeah now it's almost to the point where there are literally they're so there are Gods basically they're basically Gods now um where they're doing the actual impossible as opposed to it just being something where it's like wow they trained so hard that's so impressive now it's like oh they have they're literally perfect and have no flaws and can you know do literally something that's not humanly possible oh my God that's terrible like I have some performances of mine that are he's floating around where I'm flat at one point I was like oh shoot I messed up but you know you move on because that's how you learn if you do you make those mistakes as a vocalist you're like oh I did this stream I didn't Breathe Here I should have I should have breathed there I should have took a break there you learn from those mistakes right so if I make a mistake and sounds like only you can't sing I'm like I couldn't at that point like I I did not sing that well you're right I can't sing that part I can sing it now because I knew I made the mistake these kids don't get a chance to make a mistake because they're lip syncing and then when they do they get into this whole like apology mode one thing I like about like second gen third gen and even like like Mama moose kind of they're the age of a lot of second Jenners for sure but they vocally and like where they popped up at was third gen they do not lip sync often and when they do you can tell because they're terrible at it and then if they forget they laugh about it they own it and the only person I've seen like really recently do that was uh was her name the young lady from um nmx the lead vocal the main vocal from n mix um she had to sing the beginning part of how you like that she cracked the first note she cried right and then she was like yeah I messed up y'all and she owned it she's like I was worried about the other members I thought they were gonna like you know I was gonna I was gonna mess up the note for them I forgot what she said but it's along the lines of I didn't want to affect their performance you know which is also more pressure but like the mic was on y'all which is quite nice and I think because they're so aisles are so afraid of making mistakes now that they're afraid to own like I I flipped I messed up that note I I'm not gonna hold you like I messed that up the sooner you do that the sooner you take control and you regain your power back because a lot of these fans don't realize that the way they treat the idols and the standard they hold them to brings their esteem and their mental health to like all-time lows and they're always like oh my God if you take a break oh my God pick up in here but no it's also the fans when you don't actually look at them as humans and you Revere them as dancing deities as you mentioned it really creates this crazy Paradigm but they cannot possibly like think of like shifting like how can I make a mistake oh God I need to like not perform today why I gotta come up with some ridiculous excuse or something you know I'm saying like it's not fair to them at all but um I mean it also brings us to our next topic of like what fans thinks is is our live right because a lot of fans do think that this stuff is like yeah well so I'm sure you guys will see kind of the Mr removed videos and things like that actually yeah they don't do that as much because no one sings live but anyway we're gonna go through some of the standard terms in K-pop um and what they use on these like weekly music shows right yeah so you have Mr which means music recorded and that's basically an instrumental with some backing track of vocals to supports right backing vocals and you know like some lead vocals just to help but the artists do sing live on tops right yes then there is AR which is all recorded which is basically when the artist just lip syncs to the studio recording right the CD version the recorded studio version then there's live AR which is what most of the K-pop Idols do now which stands for live all recorded which is when the artist separately records a version of the song that sounds live with added microphone sounds and breaths right um to make it sound as live as possible but they lip sync to that track and that is really what um most Idols are doing now on the music shows um so yeah what are what are some of your thoughts just on the use of the backing track in general um so when I get my songs for live versions I have backing track in the sense where it's like background vocals words that need emphasis or words right before a certain transition that overlaps with certain vocals when you have multiple members like this oh my God you really much of a reason to have background vocals like this because that's why you have subvocals they should be able to sit there and back up the main vocal you know what I'm saying like for me if I were like curating a group okay if someone's so singing if they're singing something like you know oops ah you better be ready for did it again because she might be out of breath because she needs to sing I play with my heart you know what I'm saying like things like that but the backing vocals now are like literally like crutches crutch is not even the word for it they are literally walking for them they are they're doing all the work and then maybe you might be able to hear the vocalist sing or rap or what may have you but it's so low now that is not even existing yes exactly I think we were we watched the Golden Disc Awards I believe that was the last award show we were watching together a couple weeks back yes and um a lot of the mics were on they were backing tracks were louder you know so yes you can hear some extra breaths once in a while but like what's the point you know at that point it's like you might as well lip sync I can't even hear you sing live it doesn't count yeah yeah I agree with you like every artist uses a backing track it's impossible to like overlap yourself and all that I think the whole kind of group singing aspect of it harmonies and all that that's for a different rant another day um I'm not even gonna get into that because I can rant about that for hours I'll take um at this point look that's a part of that rant but um in terms of the use of a backing track um I think it makes sense every artist uses it right but I hate how loud it is yeah because if you watch again going back to second gen third gen yes a lot of times they would have backing track and it kind of would be for the whole lead vocal which I've never been a fan of um on these TV shows especially um but it's I don't know sometimes also when they use them if you are slightly off singing on top of it it's even more noticeable right oh my God if you actually just sing it straight over the instrumental with no backing track and if you're just like just off the note you actually can't really tell yeah um but if you're saying on top of yourself then you can definitely tell no you're so right so I get it as like a guide vocal if you need it um yeah but sometimes it actually makes it sound worse oh my God you're so right yeah and it's it's one thing I notice about like certain artists like a lot of jyp not a lot of jip artists maybe Jin young and Min from Miss A and Got7 respectively they would harmonize with their own vocals yeah yeah and I'm like there you go if it's too high you can still think exactly if you're gonna use a backing vocal dude but like you said it's a different conversation I'm gonna sit here on my yeah my soap I think also I've noticed some artists I've seen this with like 17 and straight kids and eight teeth which all they do often sing live but um depending on either who it is or what part it is they'll lip sync certain parts but then sing certain parts live so they kind of do this kind of mix of Mr and AR um I do want to note um a few years ago in 2014 oh my God that's more than four years ago or a couple of years ago now um so that's almost 10 years ago um but music core one of the weekly shows actually did without a rule saying that you had to sing live they actually had a percentage of how much the track could be have a vocal on it um but I'm not exactly sure when that rule was abolished because it was still happening up till a few years ago where all the artists would mime or a lip sync on every other show except for music core and even then you would sometimes just get them singing quietly over the track but at least you'd get a live mic but now everyone lip syncs on music core the same way so I don't know when that rule was abolished but I appreciated the rule at the time yeah you know what I don't think it's a good thing when you can hear the fan chance over the vocals anyway um but uh I guess that's one of those things where it's like they got rid of it because maybe because of midco I think um you know because back in the day I don't know I'm trying to think of maybe when but I remember seeing one whole perform and he actually sang Live at one point I was like oh he was flat but it's okay I'd rather have you be flat because you're out of breath and dancing and singing live then you sitting there sounding like a robot um and speaking of robots oh my gosh oh my gosh the pinch connection the auto tuning it's a lot face James it's a bit much yeah well let's let's start with the comment uh let's go back to Beth and Angelica from ask me about K-pop with technology now you can pitch correct live vocals so like the microphones that they're using are not just the straight audio like there's someone in a little sound booth like running that software or whatever which is something that we didn't have in the first gen so there is a lot of aspects that like prevent us from even hearing live vocals in not just K-pop like all pop music or most music ever like after 1995 when everyone discovered that auto-tune software existed like

Britney Spears in her prime like getting uh a lot of criticism because they would like take out the you know the Mr removed kind of thing footage and her she was like singing really sadly like this and like didn't at all sound like it sounded live um or it sounded because you know like in the arena or whatever so like it's just a fact of the music industry nowadays that it's really rare that you're gonna get a live vocal unless you're seeing someone like Beyonce like and even she is using some tracks sometimes because like it because yeah it's it's difficult like it's truly like difficult to like move around that much and still get your notes out like even like Broadway performers if they have a big part they don't do the dance break right before it like yeah yeah yeah thank you oh man the live autotune and Pitch correction so yes basically now you can actually have just a live pitch correction while you're singing into a mic and it happens automatically yeah a lot of artists all around the world do use it in their concerts on TV it is very common now um and yes it does again go back to the earlier point of it and remove some stress I guess from uh from the artists but I don't know it just doesn't feel authentic that way um I agree with you I'd much rather hear a pitchy vocal a missed note a crack here or there um because it feels real and and yeah it does kind of just take away some of the emotion a little bit um yeah it does that's so important in singing you know I think it adds so much more when you see someone straining to hit this high note and they're reporting they're all into it and it may not sound perfect but you feel the effort and the passion versus them just opening their mouth super wide you know yeah or sometimes like an espa like she doesn't even pretend to lip sync those she's just blank face she's doing the highest notes possible I'm like girl if you don't move if you don't even make a crinkle in your eye please give me something nope gotta keep gotta keep no wrinkles no wrinkles oh God you know what's interesting it's crazy because like back in the day I remember Mariah Carey came out people were like oh my God Tony just likes her blah blah blah like no one believe that she could actually hit these notes the MTV Unplugged performance that she had shut the haters down now we have these unplugged performances even on radio performances and those are tuned as well I remember kissed the radio they were like oh you know you have to sing yeah remember kiss the radio you have to sing on there like or they just used to joke around and do like karaoke and I remember this funny clip of like Got7 singing um uh Loser by Big Bang they sound terrible but it's funny it's so funny because because Batman can't hit the whoa he goes but you can hear it man like now with days these kids are so worried about being perfect again it's just it's just not there but it's like you have this opportunity to show people like hey this is what I trained for since I'm about and you still again it's not their fault it's the company's choices but like again you're setting this standard that's way too high and just um and just a little um FYI for those fans that are going to try and point just to those Andromeda it's like oh my God performances please don't those are so processed yeah no one sounds that perfect live like watch Celine Dion and Mariah Carey and Whitney and Kelly Clarkson like it's impossible um I have another thing that I don't like raising my head frantically fans if you want to know if your faves are lip syncing here's what you should listen to explosives when you hear those in the mic yes if you hear this that means their mouth is hitting it and my favorite sound to hear is when the jewelry Jingles honey when I hear that in the microphone I'm like the mic is on if you don't hear those sounds I agree with the jewelry sounds but now they include the mics and the compulsive the puss and all that oh my God you're right they run in the studio they run in the studio they put it in the studio listen for the jewelry y'all if y'all see the jewelry you don't hear that jewelry run yeah and if you want to hear what I'm talking about any NCT performance they're really good about adding the mic sounds into it they're annoying but they're clearly not singing live although there was one performance of two baddies where they were singing live and they sounded out of breath yeah yelling at the end yeah and I loved it me too yes delicious I love it um we do want to point out though Encore performances oh my God Encore performances is where you sometimes or often or always maybe get the real thing you get the real thing they just play the the straight instrumental no backing track on there no backing vocals they've gotta just sing and this has caused a lot of drama in the past right because sometimes you get these artists where people are like oh my God they sound amazing yeah um yeah you get some artists where they don't sound amazing one very uh memorable one is Momo from twice during the more and more Encore stage on the show Champion can I do it please you are gonna be mine again yeah I can't even like purposely do it wrong because I know the note is but yeah I'm a twice fan don't come for me or do I don't care but I'm a twice man I can admit Momo does not need to be singing up there I said it before I'll say it again she belongs yeah but you could also just see like sometimes these groups they are frozen on stage and they're about to sing their part they're so scared yeah and they can't even like do a little two-step like they have to put their all Focus they're full focus on singing These what these couple of lines live yeah um I mean to be fair sometimes they do sound great but it just shows like I was just watching the new jeans as you can tell I'm obsessed with new jeans I think they did OMG recently and they sounded really good actually but they were just standing there um you know that that goes to another question which I think we'll talk about a little more later is the stage presence even there or is it just kind of like you're given all this choreography that you're amazing at but then you actually just have to stand there and say saying like can you actually command a stage I don't know don't get me started we will get into that right a little later yeah but I mean when you have fans kind of like the Lulu's no offense no offense so I'm not saying that all fans are delusional but there are some fans that will literally like you know will go and die on a hill as opposed to using it as like a place to look for a different perspective they'll go on the hill and die on it uh when it comes to lip syncing um some of these fans don't really want to believe that maybe their favorite their fave is not all that like shiny shiny like it's just not they're not there and it's okay to say that you know uh they hate when people like us call out their faves yes um there's definitely just this unrealistic idea sometimes of how talented they are again going back to what I said earlier about just kind of treating them like Gods because honestly guys it's impossible to be jumping yeah and singing completely straight like actually physically impossible doesn't matter how much you train okay like it's literally impossible so don't tell me that they ate CDs and sound like the CD because I mean you're literally lipstick into the CDs anyway um we want to go now to Kathy and Laura from Mia 2K who had some thoughts on this um they said many stands are undoubtedly holding on to Hope or delusion from their faves that they can hold the notes while nearly doing somersaults on stage and while sure some can get pretty close during a one stage performance this is all but impossible during a three hour or so concert which we will get to the concert stuff later but yes even even in a one song perform again it's not physically possible guys um but Kathy and Laura also wanted to mention that what they really enjoy is the performance they actually don't need to be singing every line it's okay to be relying on backing vocals here and there they're totally okay with that but yeah as long as the majority of the vocal effort is live yes I agree I mean I've I've sung I've sung because I did musicals I had to dance and jump and and do some weird random things with my arms and it was a lot and I had to actually climb up on someone's shoulders sing a lot and then turn over and sing upside down and then come back up and still sing the no like it was the same no over and over again but this the the jumping the jumping and running across the stage it's a lot and then I would have to figure out when to breathe I was like how do you breathe when you're upside down or or better yet how do you breathe when the drums are going blah blah blah blah blah and you're hitting every single one E and A two e and a three and a four-y um but yeah I mean I guess it's another conversation about like choreography being way too hard when literally back in the day you could sit there and just dance on a chair and it would be just fine I don't know why the standard of K-pop they feel like they have to go so hard because they have no competition they have no like direct competition in terms of like groups or performance no offense like unless unless it's like Beyonce or like uh even like an hour or even pink pink is using like trapeze artists now like no one's really out here challenging y'all to a dance battle you don't have to go back it should be fair Beyonce does use the backing track sometimes as well yeah um yeah um yeah but then sometimes when Idols lip sync which everyone knows or should know that they lip sync all the time but sometimes random performances will get called out um they're like how dare they suddenly lip sync yeah like um Ivan Lisa's um Ives Lisa and one young actually saying um I use Strawberry Moon first of all start first IU doesn't even sing one of her songs up to like that I'm in my dream she doesn't do that as much anymore because even that's a high note for her right you're asking these girls to sing IU song not that the song is particularly challenging but I mean what were you expecting no offense you have these girls sitting there just kind of swaying and barely moving their mouths I think the biggest problem was Chris is that they actually had used the same recording sorry we should not be laughing they actually use the same recording from a previous like YouTube video that's where they effed up at maybe if they had used it they should have just re-recorded it yeah they needed a fresh AR live AR version you know yeah that's what they messed up I think I wouldn't remember well I remember um when espa sang Live at Coachella which everyone was already like oh my gosh they sang Live and then of course they went back to the Korean shows and started lip syncing again everyone was like why are they lip syncing again it's like like guys like they always have been like they're probably forced to sing live at Coachella

but no it does it does cause a lot of ridicule or like backlash for them and it's just it's it's tough and it kind of makes you think like how how important are live vocals to a K-pop performance now I mean to the fan even um fans will put up with anything I've noticed and I don't know if that's like a company thing to blame on wait blame it on the company order to blame it on the fans because at this point it's just like if we don't say Hey listen we want this why they still lip syncing and we go oh my God they're just they're in front of us right now and they're capitalizing off of us like I mean kind of just like your mom take a pause in his hand at this point it's just like we kind of just hand in hand I guess look good and in bed together the fans and the companies if the standard isn't raised as a fan then this whole like you have to be perfect thing is gonna stick around you know I don't yeah yeah I think I think for me like just as an overall thought on lip syncing as we start to close off this half of the episode yeah for me like I said earlier a K-pop Idol is a singer first you're an artist right we like you for your songs right and so singing to me personally is actually the most important to a live performance yeah um as as I mentioned earlier we're both dancers as well so of course yeah I appreciate the dancing but I don't need them to be dance crews I want them to be pop stars right where the singing It's hard to come first so to me I I do expect live vocals at once live vocals all the time um but I understand choreography is what does get more attention now so yes once in a while if you need to not sing a part so you can do this awesome stunt or crazy choreography fine yeah um but the majority of the time majority of the song I think should always be sung live man that's what the dance breaks were for which I'll do it okay another conversation another conversation okay so in terms of like having live vocals in a performance like should should we expect everyone to sing live because like I said me as a soloist having to sing and rap and do the background I know I can't do it all the time right like I've I've heard myself do it all the time and I'm like oh I can't do that it'd be realistic um for me I feel like if you're gonna have a group of like 7-Eleven members 51 members whatever the rappers and Main vocalists I say yes the mics should be on because you only come in for what 16 bars not even most properties like eight sometimes and then the vocalists they actually split it you get your main you get your main and then you get your hook for the chorus why are you not singing why are you not singing the the lead vocals like the the vocals near the uh the verses and the Pres okay yeah sure sure I get it like those aren't as important I guess in terms of like we're the best part of the song is supposedly but if you're going to lip sync I have all that dancing there let the rappers and them say like from my experience from rapping most of the time is just having good breath control and knowing when to punch in and punch out vocally like I mean like deciding baps um Zello back in the day he'd have his like what I forgot how many syllables in like what one point whatever how many seconds it was super fast but every time his part came up he would take a deep old breath let the backing track do his thing and then come in and do that verse every single time the right way so I mean like for me it rappers and Main vocals need to be the ones that have it on at least or if you're just sub vocal going hey how maybe not you maybe you don't need the mic but other people do you know what I'm saying handheld ones not the ones on your face oh man well so just to kind of lead us into the second half do we treat these live TV broadcast like one to three song performances differently from headlining concerts some fans know I mean for me I would say yeah right like um a lot of the contributors to this episode had mentioned like hey we don't want to hear the CD like I didn't come here I didn't pay no 400 for no CD version but I want to hear you with you saying um and it's interesting because it's like you have a performance but you only have one song or you do a b side or maybe on like an end of your program you have like a seven minute 10 minute set right but it's different from headlining a whole show and it goes back goes back into what you were saying about performance quality like the Dynamics of the members themselves like do they know how to perform when there's no choreography there's so many things that go into it as opposed to just like oh yeah we're going to just do all of our hits because then you have like this poopy-ish setlist full of just loud songs this one section is full of ballads and then you're back sitting there screaming your face off or not really you're lipping your face off and it's just like okay if you didn't have all the The Glitz and the Glam and the the VCRs and the the the the pyrotechnics do you have what it takes the presence and the actual performance ability to sell the show the right way because I mean what I'm you know like a lot of American audiences I say I've noticed I haven't been like oh my God like this is amazing compared to what they've seen you know yeah I would say overall a K-pop show yes it's about the overall performance itself and that includes all the production and the dancing and the dancers and all that and vocals are maybe just one aspect of it but I I do think vocals again are a main component of it um but to be fair K-pop shows are very long most of them right they're like three hours long so yes it's very hard to do a full show like that live vocals for the whole thing so I get a balance right if you need a lip sync a couple songs in the middle here or there just to kind of totally keep keep your vocal health and everything that's totally fine but live vocals should be the majority of a show I think yeah yeah yeah we were watching I think Little Mix it was or even even you when you were like we were talking about how I was going to sing one of my songs you're like you don't have to sing the choruses oh look you're so right there's no point that's where all the voices are you can lift those chorus I mean most of the time let's do some new ad libs yeah that's where you guys can actually that's if we were to kind of I guess meet in the middle of having just the lip and the vocal sing those verses what I said before too if you're if you're singing the verses as a group member then sing them if you're going to sing the bridge then sing if you're a main vocal we want to hear that bombastic that Crescendo of a song right so the chorus you better lip the hell out of it I want to see them lips flapping go off you know I don't care if you're I don't care if it doesn't match at least we know it oh wow the mic was on for like two seconds yeah but aside from that the bands I mean there are no like there's a lack of bands I think that adds to a performance of a K-pop show as well there are none so yes the other big part of our rant today is about live bands in K-pop concerts because I think one big aspect of concerts here in the west is the presence of a live band um even if you do do more electronic music you still have a drummer or you still have someone who is at least doing new sounds and stuff live yeah um and being able to hear your favorite song elevated by a remix or live instruments that's that's what makes the concert version stand out that's what makes them different we don't want you to just play the track yes you know and yeah I think a live band brings so much energy yeah to the show it adds so much more dynamic in everything and it's just yeah it's so much better and it always annoys me whenever I go to a K-pop show and they just play the CD you know yeah I I get that bands are expensive right but when I went to twice that first time I wasn't gonna go right that's one of CIS preface it but I want the the twice second show I think it was whatever either way when I went and I heard touchdown with a pre-recorded live band track I was like oh my God the song is so all the lights breaking oh you don't even have to have like an actual live band at least try to switch it up for the fan so it doesn't feel like I'm listening to a Spotify playlist that's my thing right and my thing is like of course I want a live sound but I want to balance between the digital and the traditional mediums like that's key like too much of one or the other can cause a concert experience to be completely lackluster because I've heard I've heard uh I've been to concerts where they only use like the track and I'm like because they performed it so well I was like yo I'm sold they were engaging all that because like you said the whole package and I've seen some where I'm like this this this needed this needed something to happen like a drum or remix or something so it's good to have that balance but K-pop shows aren't really like that I mean some few and far between for sure yes no you're right a bands are expensive you have to bring new people with on the road with you you need to have other equipment you need to sound check and do all of that stuff so yes I understand why it's not the easiest to bring a live band but they just kind of put all their money towards other things right they put their money towards the screens and all this stuff and like to me I would rather have a live band than have all the production um because I think it does add that much to have real musicians come out yeah and really turn a song into something unique for that moment because every time you play something live it's a little different right um and yeah I think it just adds so much and a lot of the K-pop shows that do have bands they only I do it for a couple songs and I'm not sure if that's like a money thing like you have to pay these musicians for their time like oh yeah or per you know segment in the show but I hate that because it's like they'll do these songs with a live band and it sounds amazing and then they they leave they leave and this happened um the Stray kids show that live band section was the best part of that show um and you know yes there are artists though who do have a live band at all times um YG groups right yes are often known for that big bang and 21 having a band for their last few tours I think the same band that black pink now has yes uh yeah so I did go see blackpink and you've seen blackpink before as well yes I have um and so they do use a live band the whole time it does really make the songs just really elevated yeah um it made me like songs that I don't normally or wouldn't otherwise listen to but it's you know live I'm like oh with the guitar with the live drums like yes this sounds amazing um but would you want to go to a statement from charity and Emily of the NYC K-pop Queens podcast because they had some thoughts on the blackpink concert I said by charity the black beat concert was a disappointment they use heavy backing tracks and may even try to cover up that they were using them they had a live band for some songs but it didn't add anything to the performance Emily continues live band Arrangements can be tricky at the first La show of BTS permission to dance the timing of the band was off at points and honestly due to situations like this um well that they've mentioned with blackpink and BTS shows I can feel why some fans could be like underwhelmed and why they might feel like my performance wasn't great or maybe the band wasn't great as cited by um charity and Emily so thank you very much for that because it's true I mean what we may get at one show and you're like oh this band was actually pretty good others might get a difference like I went to a blackpink show where they were like where Rose was flat as boy she was flat as a pancake with that piano right next to her and I was like baby girl no you can't do that you know like you're supposed to be like the guitarist the instrumentalist and I've heard it and I'm like and I see other recordings when she was actually like decent and I'm like well you know so hit or miss sometimes hit or miss and it's not not great that it's Hit or Miss like that but I think that's what's so great about live performance is sometimes is that yes you're gonna get some off moments but that what that's what keeps it real she was off the whole time sorry okay well okay I want to respond to charity and Emily so yes it's interesting going back now to the lip syncing or backing track use right blackpink does use a really heavy backing track I keep basically the lead vocal as loud as I'm like if not louder the entire time and to your point then if they're slightly off then they sound really off yes they're singing with their track yeah that really annoys me so that actually took away a lot for me and really annoyed me as well regarding the band though um I definitely because I was I was paying attention to the bands because I was happy that the band was there I I think overall they did add a lot of energy to it but I can see what charity is saying because they didn't really do a lot a lot of new things with some of the songs they really did just play the track as the CD was so it's like what's the point then right like if you're not gonna add anything to it um but Emily I do have to let you know uh the permission to dance band was actually not a real band at least on the Netflix or Disney plus version or whatever I forget which streaming platform they put it on they actually just had their dancers play on fake instruments get out and the band is just the track uh so yeah uh just FYI I was watching the drummer because I played the drums and he actually doesn't know how to play the drums so he actually wasn't playing it correctly at all um so that was kind of the key for me um that really annoyed me actually but BTS did make up for it with their Busan concert where they did have a live band and it sounded amazing and that is one of the examples I would use to try and prove to people why a live band is so important that is so fun money but yes you know live bands help but again even if you don't have a live band monster eggs they don't usually have a band but they'll do like a rock version of like this old song like from like when they first started because it's like it doesn't fit what they do now because it's like super super like Gangsta hip-hop they do more EDM kind of like noise hyper pop stuff so they'll you know Electrify it essentially and elevate it with the rock version or even have juhan play the drums or even Super Junior back in the day would um have he told pay the drums I think it was Beth Or Angelica who said that even with EXO they would do like different medleys and like try to elevate the Elevate the whole experience so you're getting new choreography you're getting yes you're getting dances with sticks dances in the rain dances with you're getting something different even with even if you don't change the music change the dang choreography and they'll say like oh Tanya will play the guitar or something just to kind of switch it up like they sit down on the stage you get acoustic sets like a lot of K-pop shows now you get yeah oh this is our biggest track that you know right now and then hello for 12 minutes my name is and then we get a VCR that looks like a cologne commercial and then we're making noise yeah in an acoustic set and not a single person that sat down and go hey um maybe we should actually sing as a group with just our voices you know well then you get the ballads where they just stand there with the mic stands looking forward as hell um not moving at all and it's the most boring performance they do it for like four songs in a row oh my gosh yeah um that's when you have a live piano or something that's the moment yeah okay yeah I agree if you don't have a live band new Arrangements really do add so much because that's what people love it's like oh my gosh like you remember when jungi hun added that new bridge to Excuse Me Miss and everyone still points to that yeah um you know like you get a new dance break you get a new something you you get even just a version that's like has a guitar even just in the track like that already adds to it and adds something different to it um I know they're not a K-Pop group but you should listen to our steps interview with Steve Anderson who is their music director we talked through every single song and he put so much thought into how every song was arranged how each song fit next to the others around it yes um and it's I feel like K-Pop Stars don't actually have any music directors like I don't know I don't know how they put these concerts together but sometimes the set lists are just so unorganized can I tell you that irritates me I don't get how you sit there and have a group with an in-house producer and we have this person and that person that person not a single person was like yo we should sit down and try to make a new track today for this tour and that's what gives me your right because a lot of these producers like I was once a singer myself or I'm a producer now I have a group and now I have this group and I'm producing for them and it's the same crap like oh my God like SM gets on my nerves with that like they'll have espa break down a song 15 11 times but then when they perform it live it's the same track but then you have Stacy with um was it the higher not higher music Stacy with um that guy pilsung and they did um was it so bad a hip-hop version a pop version an EDM version and I was just like I'm not sick of the song yet you're so right with all this like where's the music director where is the person saying hey maybe we should try to like give this a little bit of a moment here like I'm confused yeah for sure yeah and then also like I get that K-pop concerts are super expensive and you want to spend as much time as possible so you do a three and a half hour concert but honestly like a good 90 minute concert where every song is quality and there's thought put into every single performance yeah it's much preferred honestly for me like I mentioned like those those oh my God those ballad sections that are just always so long and it's just like you know what sometimes you don't need to perform all of those you know or like the sub or like the sub units the subunit oh well that's a whole other thing yeah the subunits and the solo moments like I I appreciate that these members get to you know show something different sometimes before these groups that have so many members it's like oh my gosh we're about to get 13 solo stages you know like really um so you know what for me in concerts like quality over quantity I don't need a 50 song set list like give me a great 90 minute two hour show um yeah that's well thought out and well planned you're right you know I think about that sometimes I notice with a lot of like if you're domestic to Seoul Korea like South Korea a lot of the shows are like four hours long because they're only two days and then you get the next weekend right like with mamamoo their last show that I remember like watching with a live band that actually kind of like didn't when I tell jokes or like played piano which was amazing I love that for them was four hours long but then again you think about like they only perform in like that big old stadium for the weekend and then the next that's it you have to kind of just wait for the next comeback so I get why it's that long when you do that and you try to condense those 100 hour shows over here it just doesn't translate well like you said so yeah just I kind of want to put that in perspective I think it's because like they only get like limited engagement with the fans so they kind of shove everything in there interesting yeah this is just a little slight mild observation because I was like why is this show four hours long and yes everyone got a long solo saves but again the live band was there and I need to watch that yeah it was actually really entertaining because the mic's wrong for sure so it was a band but yeah it's interesting I just feel like for concerts the standard um of K-pop concerts just isn't very high uh you know you have a lot of fans who are just happy to be in the same room right as these Idols are just happy to even be seeing them in the flesh so it's almost like the performance just comes second like they're just happy that they're seeing them on stage in the actual performance itself isn't yeah there's no standard to it right like there's no expectation for it no and I've said this before where for me for a performer who's putting on a concert you you want a couple goals right you want to turn the fans that you already have into bigger fans and you also want to turn anyone who's in the audience that isn't a fan into a fan yeah and I've been to a ton of K-pop concerts which I'm very lucky that I have and unfortunately though a lot of the time I don't leave yeah yeah and I think that drive is missing yeah and I think if that drive was there they would put more thought into set list and like how which songs go where and how it's all sequenced and how each performance matters and and kind of yeah all of that so it's interesting yeah I agree I think that scarcity mindset with K-pop fans especially when you're an international one you will take anything it's almost like getting breadcrumbed by a boy or something that you're dating it's literally like that's like I'm gonna give you the bare minimum babe oh my God thank you so much ah just anything for a 500 high five I love you and it's it's really like that for sure like even when I was like my crazy fangirl days it's tough because I grew up with these vocals the mic's actually being on but now that they're not it's just like what did I pay for and I kind of get and I get disconnected I disconnect very easily in that term in that sense um but yeah we talked about uh the concerts and such and I mean listen fans drop some comments below we would love to see your faves definitely you know doing your thing with the mics on for like really on like in their bedroom on a v live on um or even it's live I mean that's another thing to kind of talk about like do not use those as an example like it's live is it has such good potential to be the unplugged of Korea yeah now it's just like a joke almost like it's fun to kind of hear like oh my God this is really nice to hear like this banned version which proves our Point um but then it's just extra extra processing and like yeah the vocals then is where the issues are there yeah um yeah it's really sad like I've been watching older concerts like I want infinite they always had a live band even when they came here years ago and they played this tiny venue they could barely even stand information because the band took up so much space on that stage and it sounded amazing yeah um and yes I think um I think it was um the ladies from ask me about K-pop that mentioned shiny as well like on their last beyond live it was still during the pendant oh my God yeah but they did have a section where the live band came out oh and it was voice kept cracking yeah but it was so genuine right and it was actually very impressive it was like wow they're singing live and still doing this choreo and sounding pretty good you know yes some notes were missed but like that's fine like it was impressive it's not as impressive when you just lip sync the whole thing so yeah that's just how I feel about it but yeah definitely check out I mentioned the BTS Busan concert I was so impressed with that I'm not a huge BTS fan but that concert was really really good definitely go back and watch the big bang concerts you know like that is it the energy is just different it is because they have they had so much more to prove I feel like you know uh like K-pop wasn't as big as it was out here it was like we came out here was like I have to like you said show these people that we are worth the money there was so much at stake like if this bombs we're not coming back here again you know what I'm saying but like um it's tough I mean like I keep saying B.A.P but honestly people like oh but they're not gonna be so hard they were on the floor crawling I've seen I've seen some crazy I've seen some crazy stuff with Bap they're a good group to watch um even this one group um B1A4 I call them bilasa they um they sing live all the time one of the members even had glasses like at this point there's no excuse that's why you can't dancing and make sure your glasses don't fall off your face even a lot of girl groups like brown eyed girls before Mama moved there was brown eyed girls the mics were on even with even if the whistle note was flat you know you got that whistle you got a kazoo at that point it was a little bit of a kazoo but you know because it was getting blown so like I mean there's so many perform misses are really site or even after school pole dancing with the mics being on there's no excuse there's no excuse at this point it's just the choreography needs to be a lot easier fancy to have higher expectations in my opinion um and stop being like Oh my God this dance was hot that's what the dance breaks were for okay that's what the dance breaks are for for those moments to go oh my god did you see that not you know you freaking rubber necking every five seconds because something cool happened all right that's what formation changes are for as well let the formation chains be your awesome moment yeah I don't know I just wish like even like listening to the older groups and I know I just sound very old right referencing all these older groups but like a lot of them the vocals like they have interesting tones in the group and it's like you really get to hear different textures and things like a lot of the groups now I can't tell the difference between all of their vocals no it's true because they're meant to be like almost like replacements for it's so-and-so can't sing like I mean if you listen to like Monsta X for example when shownu's not there hyung one sings it yeah when he doesn't hit the high note sometimes one who used to do it and that was juhan so it's like they're meant to kind of like I can slide in which is good it helps with the blend but it kind of makes you was an an identifiable um is that the word I want to use it not it makes you kind of just like another face in the group um yeah but yeah it'll be interesting to see kind of what happens I do feel like vocals are becoming more and more just obsolete in general um like no one really cares if they sing alive or not so they don't they don't this is you know um and that makes me sad because they should be singers and actually do think if they sang Live more that actually would get some more respect in the west maybe yeah I agree I agree but hang on can we shout out some people like in the New Gen that we can like readily identify as like oh they were actually like wow they're alive like we like them we go let's get some love because I think we've been kind of not the face like cool okay I got you I got you I got you Idol idol have been live yeah they are fourth gen Idol is one G Idol uh Stacy I see them inhaling with their nose and trying to keep a smile on even the seraphim I mean Sakura got railed for sing what you're looking at out of breath even though it's a chorus and she doesn't really have to say that she really yeah for it though you people like oh she sounds terrible I mean yeah she's dancing and shimmying like this and singing in a Range that's probably a little too low for her because it's low but basing live too I'm trying to think of I mean stray kids stray kids oh yeah 80s oh my God yeah at so we're not like saying these kids are untalented it's just the crutch is very obvious at this point but it's very obvious no yes of course there are definitely a lot of groups that do sing live now um but there is still the heavy Reliance on the backing track yep not enough to have us not make this uh rant so yeah um and then with the live band thing I'm hoping so many people called out stray kids they like in a good way for being like Oh my gosh you brought a band and unfortunately again they were only there for a section of the show um but you know even Emily from um NYC K-pop Queens she ended their little paragraph for us saying I'm willing to pay more for straight kids concert after that experience so I'm hoping that maybe that influences other groups and other companies to prioritize live bands or live arrangements or something that's what I'm saying light Arrangements I have Library ranges for my track okay and it helps a lot of energy even if it's not real yeah that's what I'm saying but they use like real instruments and record I'm telling you guys like if this is coming from a place of love and true concern and not just you know poop we're not yeah for all you fans that are paying hundreds and hundreds of dollars for every K-pop concert like the standard should be high you shouldn't just be happy with seeing them on stage like they need to put on a really really good show

and I do believe that that is our period Point Blank okay so fans let us know what you all think how important are live vocals in a K-pop performance and should K-pop groups have live bands on tour or live Arrangements we'll we'll be nice big shout out to our amazing fellow podcast for contributing to our show thank you so much for sending in your thoughts and we cannot wait to do more collabs with you yes you can listen to ask me about K-pop every week on your favorite podcasting app and they are at AMA K-pop pod on all socials you can also check out Mia 2K on all the platforms and they are also at Mia 2K podcast on all the socials and of course our fellow New Yorkers the NYC K-pop Queens have a really fun podcast and they are at nyck K-pop Queens on socials that's right and don't forget you can if you haven't already subscribe to our Channel give us a like as well and you can join our crew on patreon to hang out with us and please comment below or message us at CCTV pops on all social media because it's a lot of fun and we have a lot of fun polls on that too it gets spicy in the stories and don't forget to like subscribe and turn on that notification for our YouTube channel and if you're enjoying the show on a podcast platform please give us a follow rating and review until next time that's Chris that's Shan and we are signing off from CCTV the non-stop pop show [Music]